Was It Dirty?

by atthehive on May 16, 2008 11:12 AM CDT Comment 5 comments

Both in last night's game thread and in the comments of the recap, there's been some good discussion about Robert Horry's foul on David West. I maintain that from a basketball strategy POV, that foul and his positioning made no sense. So, yes, I think it was intentional.

From my comment in the last post:

"1. Why the screen? (A) Ginobili was free. If anything, Horry could have been rolling for a layup. (B) West was way too far from being able to impact the play meanginfully.

2. That was not a "traditional" pick. You normally keep your hands low. Horry brought them up into West’s back.

3. Why did he try to hit West when West was already out of the play? Horry jumps into West, knowing full well that West is too far.

Again, I’m more than willing to listen to bball rationale behind these three. Sorry if I come across as a homer. :)"

What do the rest of you guys think? I'm willing to listen to other opinions now that I'm not as riled up as yesterday...

Poll

Was Robert Horry's Foul Intentional? Did he know exactly what the result would be before leveling David West?

Intentional

101 votes

Just Happened to Happen

60 votes

161 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs | Comment 5 comments

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Comments

48 Minutes of Hell here

Yo,
so I actually disagree that West wasn’t in a position to impact the play meaningfully. Manu was on the wing and West was collapsing to the basket and actually jumped to deflect Manu’s pass when Horry picked him. I also think Manu was in a position to drive to the hoop along the baseline and in that situation Horry would want to pick West to keep him off the block. As far as raising his hands, I feel its common for guys to put their forearms into someone in the post, that doesn’t strike me as a unique move. Either way, I think you’re approaching the matter from the right perspective. Rather than just making nebulous arguments about Horry’s hypothetical intentions, it seems better to analyze his actual position and whether there is a tactical logic to what he did or not.
-Graydon
48 Minutes of Hell

by Kid_Dynamite on May 16, 2008 2:17 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I agree

I was just about to post a similar comment. When I was watching the play in real-time, I actually thought Manu was going to drive baseline and that Horry was setting the pick to help free up that driving lane. I’ve noticed the same play a few times in this series (being used by both teams)—a high sideline screen and roll where the screener ends up setting a second pick closer to the basket after having rolled. I recall that being the basic outline of the play in question, but I haven’t rewatched it since last night. I also don’t think the “high” hands or the strong lean into the pick are that unusual.

That said, I’m admittedly rooting for the Spurs in this series (my primary allegiance is to the Sixers) so I’m willing to accept that my view might be influenced by my rooting interest.

by Sam Cohen on May 16, 2008 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I can see where you guys are coming from

in that the screen should have been set or should not have been set. What do you think about Horry moving his arms into West even though West didn’t reach the pick?

by atthehive on May 16, 2008 3:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think it was as much Horry bracing himself as anything else. Remember, these are 200+lb guys lunging into each other. Horry was moving to set the pick simultaneous to when Ginobili pulled up and passed instead. So, that’s either psychic ability or the world’s fastest reaction time by Horry if he was trying to intentionally hurt him, and nobody who’s been watching his slowly necrotizing carcass for the last two years thinks either of those possibilities are likely.

Another point – if Horry was trying to tweak West’s back, then why didn’t he throw an elbow into it?

If you look at the replay, Horry’s forearms make contact with West’s upper-thigh/lower-ass area – not his back. It’s Horry’s head/chest which makes contact with West’s upper back – he didn’t really make strong contact with his lower back. If it’s an attempt to target West’s back, it was a pretty pathetic one.

So, unless someone shows me that Horry secretly has a chiropractic degree and knew the exactly location of West’s nerve pinch and just how to tweak it, I’ll remain pretty sure it’s an unfortunate accident.

chaos... panic... pandemonium... my work here is done.

by rick.2g on May 16, 2008 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs