Change is inevitable - thread for trades

by nikkoewan on May 11, 2009 12:41 PM CDT Comment 17 comments

[Great FanPost from nikkoewan. I haven't had the time to post much recently, so this is a great starting point. -atthehive]

First and fore most, check out my first fan post about the off season - 2009 10 off season

In this fan post, I will help other people come up with trade possibilites( don't we as fans just love speculating?).

As many of us here in the hornets community(hornets247 and atthehive) have suggested or implied, only one player is untouchable - Paul. ( But it breaks my heart not to include West and Chandler, they have a strong bond and that is important. Juju can become a touchable lol)

i will enumerate our trade chips and give them a letter grade to indicate how valuable they are:(numbers are 09 10 contract)

West - $ 9 075 000

- very cheap contract, front contract -> goes down every year, 28 years old, contract covers whole of prime(until 31)

grade: B+

Chandler - $ 12 300 000

too big a contract for what has been an injured player( also extends up to 2010 11 season). trade rescindment hurt his value, his toe hurt his value so much. however i do believe(hope) that this off season, the hornets will make all possible ways to ensure chandler is healthy( to increase trade value (possibly announcing things like chandler to consult specialist on ankle and toe, chandler doing well with rehab from two surgery, chandler running and gunning with paul in practice etc). However, Chandler is a 26 year old 7'0 center and good centers are rare in the NBA.

grade: B

Julian Wright - $ 2 000 040

has great upside, showed that he can become the next matrix( can do everything well). only 21 years old and has a long way before being called a bust( for a lottery) and has the professionalism and work ethic to be something else in the NBA. However, Basketball IQ is questionable, it may benefit him to play somewhere else where he can get many minutes to experience NBA basketball.

grade: C+

Rasual Butler - $ 3 945 000

has had a renaissance of a season and only upped his value with clutch performances from down town. great on ball defender( against SG who are strong but not quick), great help defender( especially on weak side blocks almost averaged a block per game). has an expiring contract, although not to big( decreases value). overall, a great trade chip for the hornets.

grade: B

Hilton Armstrong - $ 2 801 198

what more is there to say? bad footwork, bad hands, not a rebounder, not a great defender, not (insert basketball term).however, there are still a few NBA scouts who think he can turn into a serviceable( or above serviceable) center in the future. only 24 years old. expiring contract.

grade: C

Peja Stojakovic - $ 13 392 000

contract extends until 2010 11 season. not a great physical defender, but more than average team an IQ defender. has many injuries( including pride) is 31 years old, slow feet. however, he may have a good year next year, following an offseason of work outs and surgery and stuff. but thats all speculation. overall, only trade value is that he can get hot anytime from beyond the arc.

grade:D ( or F??)

Antonio Daniels - $ 6 600 000

hefty expiring contract( thats a big plus), more than adequate defender, great distributor, great veteran, great team mate. but he is old, 34, has no shooting touch. just an expiring contract.

grade: C+

James Posey - $ 6 031 800

great team guy, locker guy. tough, rugged defender, more than adequate 3 point shooter. although tough and rugged, a very slow footed one. Has a tendency to overfoul, also has a tendency to take bad shots in the post. contract runs through 2011 - 2012 and by then he would be 35.

grade: D( for non contending teams), C( for contending teams)

Morris Peterson - $ 5 800 000

great team guy, great professional, more than adequate 3 point shooter( excellent from the corner). average defender, uses size to cancel out slow footedness. contract runs through 2011 2012. has not had a great statistical time in NOLA(average last year, abysmal this year).

grade: D

C is a passing for tradeability, D is not so good.

we have 6 trade assets( West, Chandler, Wright, Butler, Hilton, Daniels). 7 if we include Posey to a contending team( our bad contract for your bad contract thing).

now, start typing and put your suggestions here, i'll post mine( via comments) here so that we can get an idea of what we( as a whole) want..

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Comments

Okay..

West: No (not going to happen)
Chandler: It is going to happen is really our only trade bait that we have.
Wright: Possible, may sway a trade one way or another.
Butler: Could happen but would that solve our cap woes?
Hilton: No one wants this guy.
Daniels: Maybe, but again who wants an old PG who doesn’t do anything?

So in conclusion, I think that Chandler is gone this offseason. In all honusty after this year I wouldn’t be all that sad because he doesn’t really give you all that much offensivly other than spread the floor a little bit. But we need a C in return, my opinion that OKC trade bitting us in the arse.

New Orleans Hornets: The most inconsistent team in the NBA.

by Grayson on May 17, 2009 4:27 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

i agree with all except

somebody will want hilton( what a surprise). but its not because of talent, its because of his contract, it expires after the 2010 campaign, so that may come into play. I believe West and Paul are safe, as the news reports suggests.

Dont trade Wright. He will develop into something, I feel it in my gut.

Chandler can be traded to OKC. I dont know yet, still playing with the trade machine. going to post after my classes are done.

by lakitao on May 17, 2009 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

haha this is so funny

i did not notice that the SB Nation account that was logged in was my brother’s. So when i posted a reply, it was my brother user name, not mine which was used. so funny. anyway that is my comment. im still playing with the trade machine. This is so funny but I can see the Hornets developing into a slower Phoenix Suns pre Shaq(not in terms of numbers but direction). We depend so much on our 3 point shots to fall that if they don’t, we can get in a serious hole.

Julian Wright = Marion( or can be equal but right now not)

West < Stoudemire ( more athletic, more offensive weapons, better defender due to leaping ability)

Chandler = Diaw ( Chandler was a better defender and inside presence. Diaw is a better passer and offensive threat so that cancels out)

Posey > Bell ( stronger, more rugged, tougher defender. They both are more than adequate 3 point shooters).

Peterson, Butler and Daniels < Johnson ( do I have to explain?)

Hilton, Ely and Marks = Thomas ( Helvean Markstrely is almost as good , if not greater than Kurt Thomas, with a good hook shot and post moves and better energy.. lolz)

Peja = Q ( if not better)

Paul >>>>>> Nash ( the only thing Nash is better at is shooting from deep. Everything else, I vote CP3)

by nikkoewan on May 18, 2009 12:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yep

I agree with both comments, but again we need to trade a lot of money this offseason and that is eithier Chandler or a combination of small contracts for another or something. I don’t think many teams will be willing to deal with us unless they are using the words “Tyson” and “Chandler”

New Orleans Hornets: The most inconsistent team in the NBA.

by Grayson on May 18, 2009 2:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i hate to say this but...

i really think tyson is going out most probably to OKC. They are the only team with enough salary cap to take Tyson Chandler’s contract( other than the Grizzlies, who already has Gasol).

An interesting idea I just had. Tyson Chandler to Hawks.. IF mike Bibby doesn’t resign, and Marvin Williams doesn’t resign. Then Hawks would have enough space to get Tyson. A front court of Smith, Horford and Chandler would be defensively scary but very weak offensively. Just an idea.

Dallas Mavericks. Jason Kidd’s contract expires after this, which is worth 21 million. They might resign him to lesser money ( 4mil – ish). Then they can lobby for Tyson, who would be perfect with Dallas. Imagine TC and Dirk. Damn..

in both cases, i have no idea who we can get. for Hawks maybe sign and trade with Zaza + 1st round pick? for Dallas, sign and trade with Bass + Dampier? maybe we include Mo Pete in the Dallas trade.

I am praying that Peja goes before TC.. thats all I ask from the basketball gods.

by nikkoewan on May 18, 2009 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

TC for Wampum?

While I am admittedly not a huge fan of TC’s, I’m trying to limit this side of me as much as possible. What about TC straight up for Chris Kaman? Or TC plus change (some throw in, obviously I’m not investing terribly too much thought in this hypo., but still, food for thought?) While at first blush Kaman appears the same as TC insofar as physical toughness is concerned, I think once he gets out of LAC his durability will surprisingly spike in a new team’s favor, and he’ll opt to take the floor instead of sitting out because of what sound like standard-fare foot pains (which kept him out for 3/4 of the season last yr.).

Kaman is just as good a post-up player and interior defender, he’s more nimble and can rotate better, his FT shooting blows Chandler’s out of the water, he can shoot a few feet out, whereas Tyson can shoot only as long as his arms can touch the rim, and while the man looks like Encino Man, he a smarter big man than TC, limits his own weaknesses well, and doesn’t get as woefully out of position as often as Tyson tends to.

by Abstract Capital on May 18, 2009 4:17 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

maybe...

i do think kaman would fit perfectly in the offense, but defensively, Kaman( from what I hear) doesn’t have that much of a high IQ in defense, where he will, without a doubt, become our anchor. If would just dream, I’d like Bynum.. lolz. :)) but that’s just a figment of my imagination. Also, Kaman’s contract runs longer than TC so I don’t see any reason for the Bees to do it.

Prove me wrong with Kaman. If somebody does, then I will pray that the Clippers will get the 1st overall pick( to draft Griffin then allow them to trade Kaman)..

by nikkoewan on May 19, 2009 7:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good points, and I can only vouch for Kaman’s on-court decision-making abilities > TC’s insofar as watching all of 2 LAC games on CST this season, you probably are right. I’m glad you agree that he would fit in perfectly on the offense, seriously, Bynum would be awesome but I guess it is a dream. The $$$ issues present a problem, for some reason I see only 1 of 2 scenarios playing out. TC is traded straight up for wampum like Camby was last year, because we have an adverse negotiating position & ppl know we’re looking to dump salary – or TC & DX are traded, either packaged or independently/separately, because NO knows they can’t get anyone worth mentioning in return for TC straight-up (and while i like most everyone else loves DX), they are both exchanged for a C & PF pair that better balance up than great, not particularly strong, jump shooting 4 and a highly unreliable and possibly injured 5.

by Abstract Capital on May 19, 2009 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think this gets more complicated.

Due to the fact that there is only a limited amount of teams out there with cap space. Add in the fact that there will be a whole bunch of teams in a similar situation to us and it may become difficult to dump salaries.

Why can’t, like in the NFL, players take salary cuts? Why can’t Peja take a salary cut for the team, not even just Peja, what about everyone for the sake of the team. If they were truely devote to winning they would consider it.

New Orleans Hornets: The most inconsistent team in the NBA.

by Grayson on May 20, 2009 1:14 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Trade idea

We should just asssume that Chandler gets traded. As stated he’s our best chip. If he isn’t traded fantastic, but otherwise expect the worst.

The teams with cap space are OKC, Memphis, and Detroit. OKC doesn’t want TC, Memphis won’t spend its cash, and Detroit wants a low post scorer. I think Detroit is the most likely move if we are willing to take some contract in return. The best bet would be getting Amir Johnson who has a 4 million dollar contract thereby saving us a cool 8 million. This gives Detroit enough money to still pursue Boozer, or sign Villanueva (I think this is a better move actually cause he’d be cheaper).

The best available centers are Marcus Camby, Chris Kaman, Diop, Samuel Dalembert, and Shaq. Camby and Kaman would probably take a pick coupled with Daniels and Hilt, and maybe Juju. Kaman is probably the best all around player of all of them, but the player I think we should go after is Diop because he would really need a defense rebounding presence, and he is easily gettable without need of a pick.

I would also trade Mopete for Reggie Evans which would give us a great rebounding defending big. I would also sign Rashad McCants for about 2 mill thereby giving us the 10 points in 20 minutes a game score we really need. That shores up the d and the backup. Also I would draft the best available backup pg and give him a year to watch and learn. Reggie is cheaper by a 1 million so both of those moves cumulatively adds 1 mill to our budget. We should sign Ike Diogu, Quentin Ross and maybe Marks again and call it a day.

by jdpourciau on May 22, 2009 10:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

wow...

if all of this happens, i am going to be a happy fan. we’d roll a lineup of:

Paul, Butler, Peja, West, Kaman
Ty Lawson( or Calathies something), Shaddy, Posey, Reggie/Ike, Amir

for me, id rather not have Amir, maybe somebody else from Memphis.. If memphis gets Rubio( most likely) they will be willing to take TC. Also, Golden State might be looking to trade Jamal Crawford( who says his willing to do anything to get in the playoffs).

TC to Memphis for Milicic( about a 6 million save) + maybe a pick..

Daniels and Hilt for Jamal Crawford( 50 – 50 chance…)

then sign Ike and Mihm/Zaza/ many more to a minimum contract with team option( just in case he blows up)..

draft
Ty Lawson or Nick Calathes

we’d have a lineup of:

Paul, Butler, Peja, West, Milicic
Calathes/Lawson, Crawford, Posey, Ike, Mihm/Zaza

we’d still have Juju… pls develop..

there are many possibilities.. lets hope bower makes the right ones.

by nikkoewan on May 23, 2009 6:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I completely agee on Crawford.

You really hit the nail on the head with Crawford. He is definitely getable with a combo of Juju or Hilt and Daniels.

This would also be a great option for us because it would give us to things we need. First and foremost it gives us the shot creator and third scoring option that we definitely needed this year. He is a better more efficient Pargo.

Also he can bring the ball up the floor, and he is an excellent ball handler and would be an adequat backup pg. Basically we would just run alot of pick and roll with him looking for his shot off of the pick. I think this would be really effective (especially if we had a rebounding beast like Evans for offensive board). I think this would be really effective with teams like Atlanta and Cleveland that switch on the pick and roll because they have athletic bigs. It seems like teams who switch o nthe p and g have given us some problems and having another confident mid range jump shooter would help alot. I also think his 3 point percentage would sky rocket with CP3. He shot it really well this year with New York when he had a point guard setting him up on the corners.

by jdpourciau on May 25, 2009 8:16 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

that's is the least I can ask of from the management..

convert our bad contracts( expiring nonetheless) into something. daniels is great, but not really worth 6 mil… hilton is not worh 3 mil… if we can just make that total of 9 million into something useful( such as a Jamal Crawford)..

actually, I hope the New Golden State GM is kind of stupid. If we can get Jamal and Brandan for Daniels and Hilton ( just because they are expiring contracts).. I really hope he thinks that they have too much young talent in them( Brandan Wright, Morrow, Bellinelli, Biedrins, Ellis, Turiaf, Randolph, this year’s draft possibly Earl Clark or Curry)…

And about TC, i really hope we find a way to get someone who can give us what TC does: that is a defensive anchor who can challenge shots, athletic enough to rebound everything, agile and strong enough to defend the best post player of the opposing team and to show on the pick and roll, to set great, bone crushing picks and lastly ( at the very least) be a existing body on the floor ( in Tyson’s case be a lob threat all the time).. wow, that’s really rare. I can only think of a few. Kevin Garnett, Dwight Howard, somebody else, I don’t know those were the first one’s out of my head. As you can see, they are superstars. so you can consider Tyson to be a superstar center based on what he can do for our team.

by nikkoewan on May 25, 2009 11:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

TC a superstar?

First: Shot-changing and/or blocking, good rebounder, sets good picks, a lob-threat. I know DG, and Dwight were only the first ones that came to your mind, but there are so many more besides them + TC who fit that bill. Amare Stoudamire, Chris Bosh, Tim Duncan (I don’t think the argument that he’s a 4 not a 5 really counts if he can still fulfill all of those criteria), Al Jefferson, LaMarcus Aldridge, Elton Brand (when healthy). And those are just the “superstar” and “star” centers, I think there are at least 4-5 injured, middling & on the rise centers who can or shortly will (as in next season) do those abovementioned things alone too (Al Horford, Marcus Camby, Chris Kaman, to name a few).

I think there are more criteria for being a superstar center than that: consistent production of your aforementioned criteria, durability, to name a couple I think were kinda conspicuously absent.

Question: Why would we be able to get Jamal AND Brandan Wright for Antonio Daniels and Hotel Hell Hilton Armstrong (I know that nickname probably sucks, but my disdain for him exceeds my ability to make a cool joke about him)? Is it a contract issue? I doubt their expiring contracts are sizeable enough to get those two, Wright is going to be a star and perhaps, perhaps J-Craw is gettable, but I think I’m missing something here, explain how this could plausibly work?

And sorry, I don’t think any NBA GM is going to be “stupid”, although it would be great if one pulled a Memphis and dumped a star player like Gasol for Chuck E Cheese game tokens and a player to be named later. I personally think J-Craw for Daniels and Hilton is a distant possibility, but I’m not sure of the others – you advocates of the more us-friendly trades, could you / someone explain how these could realistically work?

by Abstract Capital on Jun 2, 2009 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I can't

I can’t explain how they can realistically work. It was more on hoping rather than suggesting. There’s a difference. A possible reality vs. dreamland.

@TC superstar: Amare can’t play D on a consistent basis, Bosh ain’t that athletic( in my eyes) plus he really isn’t a great rebounder( keyword great not good). Duncan ain’t that athletic anymore but still greatest center or forward( whichever) of our generation. AL JEFFERSON IS SERIOUSLY BAD ON D. LMA is possible, Elton Brand is not a center, Horford is possible, Camby is a black hole on offense, Kaman is possible..

I never said TC IS a superstar. I just said TC can be considered. There’s a difference. The first states a fact, the second is an assumption. Thanks for giving names on the Superstar Center.

by nikkoewan on Jun 4, 2009 4:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

BYNUM.....NO WAY

I got to be honest here Andrew Bynum is a media made superstar. He wreeks of being overrated. Have you guys watched this man play? He does not have good post presence. He is mediocre at D but he dosent even get to play it half the time because he is always in foul trouble. I have to admit I love Marc Gasol’s game. He might not be a great fit in this offense because you would have to work inside out but he is an ox. I also love Al Jefferson but will agree with the last post that his defense isnt there but if you want Bynum your crazy. You think Tyson’s contract is alot eat Bynum’s and see what you get out of it….. nothing. I would go for Gasol of Jefferson on my team if I couldn’t have Ming.

by Nuck When You Buck on Jun 9, 2009 2:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I'll be burned tarred and feathered for this, probably in reverse order though as it'd be kind of hard to tar and feather a burnned guy right?

Anyway,…. :) so and so said, that was over heard by sam, who told jane, in turn told me…..

That paul wasn’t as untouchable as it would seem.

I hear your owner is a cheap skate and would like to sell/move your team… and the only way to do that is to get you all to hate your team and stop watching, …. and per my rumored source, …. the simplest way to do that is ….. gasp….

TRADE CHRIS PAUL…. soo…. without further adooo…

What in portland do you like. we got cap space we got backup centers who should start, we got SF’s that produce, we’ve got PF that duo at center, we got…. Pg’s galore given we don’t have one chris paul.

mind you I consider paul as untouchable as you all.

But a man can dream right. kk just thought I’d pass along the sisters cousins brothers random drunk talk as it was something of real value… but hey… ya got a laugh no ? :)

Keep up the great work Authors of this blog…. and commentors ya’ll are pretty mello ya know.

The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out, burns out farms, and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.

by faith on Jun 10, 2009 8:04 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs