Kings Fan Seeks Clarity
Good day, Hornets fans.
We're waging a healthy conversation over at Sactown Royalty about Emeka Okafor. We have some folks that think that the Hornets would give Okafor up for Kenny Thomas. I see that as the same sort of silliness that has some folks suggesting that we give up Kevin Martin for expiring contract. I understand that the Hornets have luxury tax issues, but any trade at this point is going to require the Hornets to take contract back, greatly reducing the relief that can be had (for example, Okafor for Thomas would net the Hornets about $3 million in relief when you factor in the luxury tax and the fact that half of the season and the payroll that goes with it is nearly over).
So my question is this - Is Okafor really available on the cheap, or do you think that the Hornets would demand tangible assets in return? I have been arguing that there is no way the Hornets just give away a 20-something double double guy (Okafor shares that distinction with Dwight Howard and Carlos Boozer).
What do you guys think? Thanks in advance for your input.
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Good question, one that we wonder/ask of our front office often
I’m sure others on the site can add on, but here’s my thoughts on it:
G. Shinn will at least explore every possible avenue to reduce the payroll beneath the luxury. Evidence of this has been on full display (R. Butler, D. Brown, etc.), and at the end of the day, the dollar amount coming out of his pocket is very important to him. Now whether that makes him a good or bad owner is entirely another question, but considering that he’s one the only NBA owners without an additional external venture, one can at least see the rationale.
The luxury is at 69.92 million dollars this year; the Hornets’ cap figure stands at 73.294 million dollars. So essentially, he’s looking at approximately 3.374 million if he’s to avoid the dollar-for-dollar tax altogether. Shaving that much off is impossible unless Okafor, West, or Chris Paul (or Peja, for those that dare to dream big!) are moved. Moving Paul probably kills basketball in New Orleans.
I have just one measly source, but from what I hear, the situation isn’t nearly dire enough for Shinn to completely steer clear of paying one penny of the tax. The failed Devin Brown trade would have helped matters hugely. But as it stands now, they’d pay the 3.4 million dollar-for-dollar, only a little bit more than the amount they received for their 2008 27th overall pick. So worst comes to worst, they could move a 10th-20th pick and recover some money.
Point being, I don’t think they move a big player for space. My second point is more speculative, but I could see them moving West instead of Okafor. West does make 1.6 less this year, but he’d still possibly bring them close enough to the tax. His performance has dipped this year, he’s more than two years older than Okafor, and Emeka’s longer contract and position could potentially make the Hornets seem more stable in Chris Paul’s eyes. So even if the financial situation is more dire than I and others think, I don’t know that Okafor is necessarily the first choice to move.
Of course, I’ll end with: IF Okafor moves, then no, I don’t think the Hornets will demand tangible assets in return. Trading him would probably mean the team’s cutting cost at all, um, cost. Yeah.
My take on it is...
That packaging Hilton Armstrong or Ike Diogu could be used to shread that 3 million dollars. I find it hard to believe that guys like Mo Pete and Armstrong won’t be thrown around by Jeff Bower in order to get rid of terrible players and money. I wish we could just take away their salary, they don’t deserve it.
Australian Atlanta Falcons Fan EST 2003
Armstrong with Marks or Diogu is $3.6
Armstrong/B. Brown is $3.5.
My point is that all these guys don’t play for us, and would get the organization under the tax threshold without giving up players of value to this team. A team like Portland or Golden State may be willing to take a chance on Armstrong and/or Marks, particularly since it would be a relatively low-risk deal.
Also, I don’t know if we lose some kind of right-of-first-refusal by trading Diogu, but that might be something to consider with respect to our bench for next year.
True
But again, unless the Hornets can find a deal similar to the D. Brown one (where the incoming player can be cut immediately without counting against the cap), the Hornets don’t slash off those entire contracts without receiving something in return.
Umm question...
May sound stupid, but is Peja in his last year?
Australian Atlanta Falcons Fan EST 2003
I think he's got one more..
If his huge contract was expiring after this year it would be a huge asset with all the 2010 hoopla…
It’ll still be a nice asset once it does get to that point.
What's up section 214
How’s it going man, I’ve commented a bit on Sactown’s Blog. Your thoughts are spot on. It makes no sense to trade Emeka Ofafor for peanuts.
Here is what we know… the Hornets are over the luxury tax by 3.3. By the trade deadline half of any particular player’s salary will have already been paid. Hilton has a 2.8 million contract, Marks has an 800k as does Diogu, and Devin has a 1.1 mill contract. We have 15 players, and any combination of Hilt and one of those other guys gets us under the line without having to get back any other players. Also since have of their salary is already paid, they will only have to pay half of the remaining salary which will be as much as 2 million.
The Hornets can offer 3 million in cash to someone to take those contracts, and that team will essentiall make a million dollars by taking our bad contracts. Not to mention there are plenty of teams that need some bench help at the 5. So someother teams makesmoney, and shores up their bench without any big moves.
Moving Okafor to cut a measly 3.3 million dollars off our luxury tax makes no sense. It’s like selling your house at half the price because it needs a coat of paint. Just paint the freakin house, don’t sell it for cheap.
Also, I’m pretty sure we can give away Pose for expirings, and trade Mo Pete’s contract next year plus a pick for cap space. Those 2 moves by themselves will put us in a good position cap wise. I am still convinced that we can trade Peja’s contract for two young wings, and then we are set. Out bench is getting better and better, West and Meka are making it happen now, and Chris Paul is still Chris Paul.
I also agree that West would be moved before Okafor. His contract is more cap friendly, he is older, and it would be easier for us to get a young 4 of equal value then trying to replace Okafor. There are alot more 4’s out there then 5’s.
Brilliant
“Moving Okafor to cut a measly 3.3 million dollars off our luxury tax makes no sense. It’s like selling your house at half the price because it needs a coat of paint. Just paint the freakin house, don’t sell it for cheap.”
Much better than I put it, haha
Thanks, guys
Confirms what I thought. I know how maddening it is for me to see the “Martin for magic beans” rumors, and I imagine this Okafor thing is just as frustrating for you.
Good luck on the rest of this season.
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How about your opinion on this one -
The Hornets send Hilton Armstrong and next year’s draft pick to the Kings for a 2nd round pick. Saves the Hornets a few million via moving Armstrong, and relieves the Hornets of paying a mid-first round pick next year. My bet is that you could sell that pick for $3 million on its own, but I think that moving Armstrong this way would save you about $4 million?
Viable, or pie in the sky?
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Utah
just traded Eric Maynor to OKC for the rights of a 2002 draft pick that will never play in the NBA. The Nuggets traded Marcus Camby to the Clippers for a 2nd round pick. So I would guess that Armstrong and a 1st round pick for a 2nd round pick would be legal, but I’m not 100% sure.
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Yeah it's legal
You guys are under the cap buy over 4 million so it works. The only way to make a move like that is if the other team is under the cap or has a trade exception.
The trade idea is not a screw job, but I think it is a little below fair market value. I’d argue that Utah/ Okc set market value with their Harpring/ Maynor trade. Harpring’s contract was worth 6 million and that is with a pick that was in the low 20’s I believe. There is a good chance that our pick will be lower/ a lottery pick which adds even more value.
One trade I would do is Peja, Mo Pete and 2 firsts for Nocioni and Garcia. We get 2 solid starting wings, and you guys get 2 picks and contract that expire next year thereby cutting your long term salary issues. It is very similar to a trade that I proposed on Sactown Royalty and it wasn’t very popular. A move like this might be more doable over the summer.
Does that work, considering that Garcia is a BYC player?
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yep but not until the summer, and only because you guys are under the cap
Aslo, because it is such a big money trade, there is more wiggle room. BYC is more problematic in one for one trades. But when there are multipl players, and alot of salary changing hands there is more room to work with. We are trading 20 for 12 million.
Interesting
I’m not sure if I would do it or not, but it’s fair.
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Yeah
Much of the sentiment on Sactown Royalty was that the Kings don’t want to go back to the past. Also, Garcia and Noc are pretty good, and they didn’t want to give them away.
My argument was that their value was lower on a team with such wing depth, and that the picks, 20 million in expirings and your additionaly cap space, not to mention your young prospects should be enough to make a MAJOR addtion to your team.
It would be less of a trade for Peja, and more of a trade that puts you in position to aquire some serious talent via trade.
Well,
you know how it is when you’re dealing with the general populace of any site – fair doesn’t always enter into the conversation. That’s why this Okafor for magic beans nonsense has frustrated me. It’s no different than when people were suggesting that we give away Kevin Martin. So if we bristle when someone says that we should give away Martin, why are we so quick to buy into the great Okafor giveaway? (Because it’s you giving away your guy, and not us giving away our guy.)
Thanks again for taking the time to shed some enlightenment.
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Well...
Hilton Armstrong…
I’ll be honust this guy is pretty god awful. Every time he touched the ball I cringed. His rebounding is very poor, offensive rebounds are usually tapouts and the like.
Trying to post him up is like giving the ball to a twig in the post…he has no idea what to do in the post. In all honusty I hope you guys can make him succeed but I doubt it.
Australian Atlanta Falcons Fan EST 2003
I'm not that excited about him,
but he was virtually free, so I guess that there is no risk for the KIngs. And I’m in favor of just about anything that gives the Hornets more financial solvency.
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