Chris Paul to Clippers Open Thread
by Rohan on Dec 12, 2011 10:40 AM CST
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UPDATE, 12:15 P.M. CENTRAL:
UPDATE, 12:10 P.M. CENTRAL:
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The proposed deal has reportedly been submitted to the league and is apparently hung up over the Clippers' failure to include point guard Eric Bledsoe, according to ESPN. If true, it's a very strange point to be arguing over. More importantly though, there are conflicting reports about the deal itself. ESPN characterizes the current trade as the following:
The New Orleans Hornets and Los Angeles Clippers have submitted a multiplayer blockbuster deal to the NBA that would send All-Star point guard Chris Paul to Los Angeles, a source with knowledge of the discussions said Monday.
But the trade as presented has at least one stumbling block: The league, which owns the Hornets, wants the Clippers to add Eric Bledsoe to a package that already includes guard Eric Gordon, center Chris Kaman, forward Al-Farouq Aminu and Minnesota's unprotected 2012 first-round pick.
But a number of league-wide reporters are disputing that, with NBA.com's David Aldridge most recently indicating that the Hornets still must choose between the pick and Gordon.
So consider this your open thread to talk through this craziest of mornings.
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This is super confusing
ESPN is the only outlet reporting that it’s both guys right now. Literally everybody else saying either/or
To be clear
most people are saying they don’t know for sure. David Aldridge is the only one (I know of) definitively saying either/or
But
ESPN was also the only outlet to know that Gordon was involved at all. Everybody else was tricked by the Clippers’ desire not to let Gordon’s name leak
AHHHHH! WHAT DO I BELIEVE!?
"I've been big ever since I was little." - William "The Refrigerator" Perry
Follow me on the twitter machine @whYLZL
It should be both
We can do whatever we want. We have absolute power. HIT THAT BUTTON STERN
http://hornetshype.com
With no leverage
We could be looking at Gordon + a top 5 pick (ours) + a top 10 pick (Minny) in the most loaded draft since 2012. AND a valuable expiring in Kaman, AND Aminu and Bledsoe, who are 21 and 22 respectively, if not “good”
how the negotiations are going
Oshley: You have to pick, Gordon or MIN 2012 pick
Demps: We want both
Oshley: Well you can’t have them.
Demps calls Stern
Oshley:
ok :))
by nikkoewan on Dec 12, 2011 10:57 AM CST up reply actions 4 recs
hahaha - this needs to be green, people!!
rec’d
"There’s no such thing as off the charts, just get a bigger piece of paper. If you can’t figure that out you shouldn’t be charting anything" - Skep
by Duby Dub Dubs on Dec 12, 2011 1:16 PM CST up reply actions
Are any other
Hornets included in the trade? I am happy for the Hornets to get so many good players, but why would the Clippers give up so much for one player, even if it is CP3?
Clippers, a perennial loser, have nothing to lose.
Even if they “give up to much,” they still have Blake/CP. In L.A. Can you say win? And the national TV networks can go all-in on the “other L.A.” team. Plus, I want EVERYTHING!
MWHWHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
DUH
didn’t even think about this till now. LAC were probably already in line to challenge for top 10 most televised team this year but now they are easily top 5? CP3 is about to be on national tv all the time!
Brought this up yesterday
What if CP3 hates the Clips and wants to leave in summer of 2013?? We’ll have cap space….
Hey guys long time no comment
I actually think its going to be both players. If you look at the package Jazz got for Williams, then getting Gordon and pick is just right.
:) Thank You David Stern :)!
Demps’s move to acquire those old, 6th-man coming from a championship team, or disappointing guys (Martin, Odom, Scola, Dragic) sucked major balls. I’ve lost a significant amount of faith in him and don’t think we’d have been able to build for the future if he hadn’t been supervised. Despite the procedural wackiness of it all, I thank you David Stern.
by Grand Tanyon Sturtze on Dec 12, 2011 10:46 AM CST reply actions
Good LORD
don’t say anything yet! Hasn’t history nor that little word, ‘jinx’ taught you anything! :)
(shi* you're right! i agree)
(i take it all back!)
by Grand Tanyon Sturtze on Dec 12, 2011 10:48 AM CST up reply actions
Think about it this way
The new team in this new Clips deal is going to suck majorly. That’s a good thing, but what if Demps thought his job might be on the line if he didn’t get a solid short term deal? What if Stern saw the deal and assured him that wouldn’t be the case.
Because of the new fans (10,000 tix holders etc) angle, there’s lots of factors at play here for Demps.
I guess that could be the case
But I dunno, that’s a big “if” isn’t it? Nothing so far has indicated that Demps’s head would be on the chopping block, what makes you think/infer that now? Based on how incensed he was that he couldn’t pull off that IMO essentially spare part crap trade with LAL/HOU it seemed like, besides having a veto exercised on him by the team’s owners/the central league office, he actually thought it was a great deal. I guess you could be right, but I dunno, Demps putting himself before the team is a natural thing, I understand that he’d want to save his own hide, but I mean it was so obvious to the smarter critics of the team that it was nothing but a, at best, 1 year fix that wouldn’t do anything for the franchise long-term
by Grand Tanyon Sturtze on Dec 12, 2011 10:53 AM CST up reply actions
That itself is a big if sure
But the underlying pressure of short term vs. long term? Definitely real
crossing my fingers
that it works out. I guess Stern DOES know best. Sorry Demps.
I swear if Stern doesn't back off on his over-demanding, I will die
"I've been big ever since I was little." - William "The Refrigerator" Perry
Follow me on the twitter machine @whYLZL
Surprised Belinelli hasn't been brought up in deal
would seem to be a decent 2 in return for the massive hole left by Gordon if the Clips ship him away… which might make the deal more palatable. I’d be for it. Let’s face it, Gordon would chew of all of Marco’s minutes and Monty likes Willie Green better anyway (gulp).
haha, hard ball
I love it. But clearly someone’s source sucks because they’ve been wrong at every turn
by Andrew Juge on Dec 12, 2011 10:51 AM CST up reply actions
I'm hoping it's just typical trade musings
on seeing how far one team can go? Or there is talk of a 3rd team???
On a serious note
all this constant pushing makes me now believe that Stern does NOT want any team landing CP3? It’s a conspiracy to keep him in the city no matter what???
Meanwhile
our team is sold and moved elsewhere as a potential owner has already agree to the scenario?
I'm not sure whether to weep or cry...
…that Hornets fans want Chris Paul traded because it’s the best thing that can happen to the franchise long term.
David Stern deserves a lot of hatred for how he’s handling this.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
BTW
Clippers don’t own ANY more Minnesota picks as far as I know (http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed).
Does this mean Minnesota itself is involved now? This makes absolutely zero sense now. Negative sense
Yeah Stern is just gonna own them too
We actually get them in the trade. The TimberHornets.
http://hornetshype.com
by ticktock6 on Dec 12, 2011 10:52 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
They don't?
I feel like I’m reading it’s in credits and for MIN it’s in debt so LAC still have it, right?
But that's the one we're already talking about
Broussard’s tweet indicates there’s another one… which if true is just nuts
Assuming
we at least try to move Kaman on before the deadline. (We’d have a 60 day time period to do it after the trade goes through)
Kaman will be easy to move
to a contending team desperate for a big as he’s an expiring. I’m sure someone will panic and overpay for him. We can definitely trade rape someone with Kaman if he’s healthy (big if). The question is, for the 60 days minimum he’s in a Hornets uniform, does he start alongside Okafor? Or does one of the two come off the bench?
by Andrew Juge on Dec 12, 2011 11:00 AM CST up reply actions
so what then? Okafor off the bench? Expensive role player.
by Andrew Juge on Dec 12, 2011 11:01 AM CST up reply actions
Nah
it’d be short term thing. I’m sure they’d play together some but how could they start every game as their are some very mobile PF’s out there.
I just noticed Rudy Fernandez is on the market
isn’t he Dell Demps’ holy grail? Wouldn’t be surprised to see Dell go after him
but i can't see
where Rudy fits? i’d rather us try to get this D-leaguers a taste of NBA basketball, and then try to sign some of them long term (those that pan out)
Rudy is off the radar
because hasn’t he expressed a super strong desire to return and stay in Europe?
He would be nice
He has never really gotten a good chance to start and make an impact. Could be the reason he wants to return to Europe. He’s very versatile, able to play the 2/3 position. Not sure of his cost. And would definitely try to figure this trade out first.
This whole deal is frustrating...
I can’t believe we could bring in that entire haul from the Clips. Thats an incredible package for us. These “sources” and “rumors” tweets are getting on my nerves!
Which team would you rather have?
Starters
C Jordan (if they match offer sheet)
PF Griffin
SF Butler
SG Foye
PG CP3
Bench
Brian Cook (PF)
Ryan Gomes (SF)
Travis Leslie (G)
Trey Thompkins (F)
Willie Warren (SG)
Mo Williams (PG)
Starters
C Kaman
PF Okafor
SF Ariza
SG Gordon
PG Jack
Bench
Aminu (SF)
Anderson (PF)
Belinelli (SG)
Bledsoe (PG)
Pondexter (SF)
Smith (PF/C)
yeah
i can’t believe we might be able to get as much as 3(!) 2012 (2 are most probably lottery) while still keeping Gordon, Aminu and Bledsoe? this shit just got way too good to be true.
My thoughts exactly...
I can’t see where we bring in that much for cp3… However, I also dont think the people breaking these rumors know whats going on, so I take it for a grain of salt…
i'd rather have the Clippers team
any team with CP3/Griffin in them is gold. Add Jordan and Butler and you’ve got a pretty good 2nd round team.
Clips
I would definitely take the Clips starting 5, although our bench has some talent in that scenario.
This Is Awesome
"You play to win the game."
by MrWayneKeller on Dec 12, 2011 11:42 AM CST up reply actions
Anyone think Stern is insisting on Gordon for marketing purposes?
I love the tanking and draft pick(s) angle, but Stern may be thinking that “I’m In” billboards featuring Kaman and Mek aren’t gonna inspire people to head to the arena (and possibly hurt potential sale).
Absolutely
Gordon a young rising stud brings additional value to a team – much more than Kevin Martin and Co.
agreed
with no marketable player after Paul, team would lose interest quick. Personally, i’d rather the Hornets sell a team rather than a player, but due to the nature of the NBA, that’s not always easy to do. but Hornets org has done nothing but good things this past lockout, so doing something like this might be good :) )
No doubt...
They definitely need a young recognizable face to go with the future of the franchise.
I'm excited about getting Kaman, btw
solid center, AND he loves spending ridiculous $$ on fireworks. win, win:
by Savage_Henry on Dec 12, 2011 11:10 AM CST up reply actions
Broussard
just said on Sportscenter that the League doesn’t really want to move CP3 – it’s why the deals have been crazy.
I wonder if they'd do it
I don’t think they have a case personally. Stern’s defense that he’s acting as owner should get him through even if it’s stupid
Yep
I think at this point we’d have to hope fan reaction would be so violently mad that somewhere someone has to change their mind about the NBA’s approach.
From what I have heard
they are saying the “team owners” rejected the Lakers deal, not the NBA. It is a fine line but it is still there. I’m sure the same thing will be said if this deal fall through.
Indy is gonna be fun to watch this year
Happy for Mr. West to end up in such a good spot. Added bonus in that it’s not Boston.
by Savage_Henry on Dec 12, 2011 11:27 AM CST up reply actions
Deal held up
Stern wants a unicorn. Clippers looking for third team to provide Stern with a unicorn of his own.
#2 Sean Marks fan on the blogs
by Icebird on Dec 12, 2011 11:26 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Hold up...
A “expert” from espn just tweeted that the Celtics did indeed offer up a unicorn, teams awaiting approval from the league.
I don't care
what the rest of the League says and how angry they are and how butthurt all the Laker fans are. Stern did what was best for US and for that I am GRATEFUL
No doubt about that...
The original trade was not in our favor. However, if we come away with the steal being reported from the Clippers, it would be incredible.
No way
that this is gonna happen as we’re talking about it here. I just hope that some form of this trade happens. Is it true that Bledsoe is out until late January due to knee surgery?
Or He's Just Practicing
"You play to win the game."
by MrWayneKeller on Dec 12, 2011 11:45 AM CST up reply actions
Stern drives a hard bargain.
Good for him I suppose, since he is trying to keep the value of the team for a sale. But damn.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
LET US PRAY
Stern is my overlord, I shall not want
He maketh me a team that will suck mightily
He leadeth me into the top 10 of the draft… twice!
He restoreth my franchise. He leadeth me in the paths of RIGHTEOUSNESS
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil
For thou art with me; thy Stern Button it comforts me….
http://hornetshype.com
by ticktock6 on Dec 12, 2011 11:41 AM CST reply actions 2 recs
I Don't Really
Like Stern asking for so much. It’s what made the Lakers bow out too. I get that they want to get a gold mine for Chris Paul but we’ll see if the team actually gets it. The Hornets NEED to move on and start putting a team together here soon. Seriously.
"You play to win the game."
don't you think
it would be wise if Belly was included as a S&T? Belly excels if given the “shoot only” mentality, and in a team that might feature CP3/Blake/Butler/Jordan, his shooting will plug in just fine. thoughts?
by nikkoewan on Dec 12, 2011 11:45 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Any Word
Gordon’s in the last year of his contract, any word on if the Hornets will offer him some kind of extension to avoid this fiasco next year too?
"You play to win the game."
since the minimum for the trade is
the min 2012 1st. if minnesota winds up being the 8th or 10th pick and our pick winds up being a top 4 pick, who would you pick?
my vote?
Anthony Davis and Quincy Miller/Michael Gilchrist
both of whom would be showered by love by Monty for their defensive focus. Davis also has the unique experience of being a wingman before being a big man so he has some dribbling ability. any idea?
Update;
WojYahooNBA: Clippers are refusing New Orleans-NBA steep asking price for Chris Paul, league sources tell Y! Sports. “Deal could be dying,” source says.
EXPLETIVE
EXPLETIVE! EXPLETIVE! EXPLETIVE!
"You play to win the game."
by MrWayneKeller on Dec 12, 2011 12:11 PM CST up reply actions
Good Grief
figures..Stern isn’t going to allow a trade then all season. And so basketball is on life support in our city.
This is so ridiculous
On both sides. On Stern for continuing to prod, and for the Clippers to not realize they about to team up CHRIS PAUL AND BLAKE GRIFFIN
by Savage_Henry on Dec 12, 2011 12:13 PM CST up reply actions
Son of a Bia
Damnit, league!
"You play to win the game."
by MrWayneKeller on Dec 12, 2011 12:14 PM CST up reply actions
IF this really goes down like this
I’m not sure I can find it in my heart to support the team financially this year and attend a game. I understand I’m hurting the viability here but I just can’t rationalize giving ANY support to Stern/NBA.
Twitter is kind of ruining free agency.
There are ALWAYS these back and forth almost kinda not really deals that are made and fall through. Only, know, we’re hanging on ever rumor. PATIENCE PEOPLE.
Yeah you right!
Damn tired of “sources” and “tweets” and “rumors”… Most of it is no different than the last message!
OMG
SOURCES
"You play to win the game."
by MrWayneKeller on Dec 12, 2011 12:16 PM CST up reply actions
Only dude getting as little sleep as GMS right now?
ROHAN. Keep bringing the news.
by m-W on Dec 12, 2011 12:19 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I feel the same way
which is probably just what the NBA wantsto see happen.
Hahaha
If Stern gets in way of both Lakers+ Clippers trades for CP3 – I’m thinking he probably wants to skip trip to STAPLES Center this year
by RedHopeful on Dec 12, 2011 12:20 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
This whole debacle is like
A kick to the stern-um…
by njennings on Dec 12, 2011 12:20 PM CST via mobile reply actions
FWIW
Dwight Howard is apparently ready to give the Magic one more shot
“@WindhorstESPN: After meeting with team, Dwight Howard seemed to re-open door to staying with Magic if there are “changes.” Story coming"
good news for them
bad news for us. JUST GET THIS FREAKING DEAL DONE WITH before Lakers re-enter convo and CP3 suddenly rescinds his “opt in with the Clips” statement GOD
These Players
If they just understood that it’s a process for a GM to put together a successful team, and they gave that GM the chance, they’d see changes. They don’t understand that this “hurry up and please me year to year” routine is what sets these teams back in the first place.
"You play to win the game."
by MrWayneKeller on Dec 12, 2011 12:32 PM CST up reply actions
He's pretty credible. He doesn't really break news but if he does, it's usually pretty legit.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
ditto
Just b/c one specific scenario is rejected doesn’t mean the “deal” is off or there aren’t ongoing talks.
The initials BS
Don’t sound credible for some reason…. Just can’t put my finger on it
by njennings on Dec 12, 2011 12:50 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Someone needs to slip Stern some Xctasy
Seriously, if he can’t see this deal is as good as its gonna get, nothing will.
I don't get this at all. Killing the Lakers trade made sense to me from a business perspective
This is insane though. Great haul and losing Paul for nothing at the end of the season would be definitively worse.
I’m at a loss for words right now.
I gave Stern the benefit of the doubt last time, but clearly at this point he is trying to make a point that he won’t be forced into a trade and he is going to make Paul choose between resigning with NO, taking a MLE deal from a desirable market and forgoing 75-88 million, or signing with the one or two small market franchises who will have cap space.
Wojnarowski is tweeting it
so there must be some truth behind it. UGH DAVID STERN WHY! i hate that we have a love-hate relationship with him. FUCK
If this is hung up by Bledsoe
I’ll want to amnesty Stern.
"I'm not a businessman, I'm a business, man" ~Jay-Z
CP3 is coming. Quick, hide your Howards!
"Sleeping on me probably in the coffin" - Tyga
Shoutout RALLY SQUIRREL!!!!!!!!!!
by OnPointLikeCP3 on Dec 12, 2011 12:59 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I'M MAD
"I'm not a businessman, I'm a business, man" ~Jay-Z
CP3 is coming. Quick, hide your Howards!
"Sleeping on me probably in the coffin" - Tyga
Shoutout RALLY SQUIRREL!!!!!!!!!!
by OnPointLikeCP3 on Dec 12, 2011 12:59 PM CST reply actions
hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
can you find the “n”
hint: it’s not there.
"I'm not a businessman, I'm a business, man" ~Jay-Z
CP3 is coming. Quick, hide your Howards!
"Sleeping on me probably in the coffin" - Tyga
Shoutout RALLY SQUIRREL!!!!!!!!!!
by OnPointLikeCP3 on Dec 12, 2011 1:02 PM CST up reply actions
troll.
I don’t even know why I wrote that.
"I'm not a businessman, I'm a business, man" ~Jay-Z
CP3 is coming. Quick, hide your Howards!
"Sleeping on me probably in the coffin" - Tyga
Shoutout RALLY SQUIRREL!!!!!!!!!!
by OnPointLikeCP3 on Dec 12, 2011 1:03 PM CST up reply actions
Woj
says deal is dead “for now, anyway” fwiw.
Since this is a negotiation and there’s always going to be moments like this, I think there’s no need to panic …
…YET
I wonder....
if Stern is driving up the price so hard as a way to further justify vetoing the Lakers deal? Just so he can show that he didn’t just turn down the deal because people bitched about it being the Lakers.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
Why though
wasn’t the problem with the HOU/LAL deal that there was really no youth involved? What on earth is the problem now?
Dunno
But again, we have absolutely no idea what the proposed trade with the Clippers was.
I can’t get too angry here. Yet.
This Is All Gary Chouest's Fault!
Had he just bought the team last season he’d be pulling the trigger and this wouldn’t be happening :(
"You play to win the game."
by MrWayneKeller on Dec 12, 2011 1:10 PM CST up reply actions
FJLKS;ADFJSLAKFJWQEK;LRJEW;QKRJQW;LK
AKSDFJALKSJFAL;FJA;LLK;SRUWEOPIRU AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!
"You play to win the game."
Can't Wait
For another day of practice with our five players. What a great day.
"You play to win the game."
To have all of this carry out publicly
Has to suck. Seriously, if he stepped down I wouldn’t blame him
are you shitting me?
what else does this little white man want? i doubt we can get a better deal than that one
say que?!
This is funny
ESPNChrisPalmer Clippers could have sweetened the deal by throwing in Darius Miles, Quentin Richardson and Keyon Dooling.
I don't know how much more of this I can take
If stern wants a PG in return, why not just involve minny in the deal. They always have an abundance.
New post up
http://www.atthehive.com/2011/12/12/2630912/chris-paul-trade-clippers-deal-dead-again
I’ll have another open thread up if talks ever resume again
Hate to say it guys
But I think this is the NBA’s way of contracting league and dealing with ornery superstars
1. Frustrate CP3
2. Frustrate fan base
3. Make fan base lose hope
4. Attendance numbers decline
5. Shut down franchise based on lack of fan support
6. Teach lesson to Memphis—you’re next fellows
Its f**king brilliant I tell you.
"I have had a perfectly wonderful evening, but this wasn't it." Groucho Marx
Thank God
Thank God it was canceled. The proposed deal as reported by most outlets was horrible.
It bascially boiled down to CP3 for a draft pick. No Eric Gordon, no Jordan (not that I was totally enamored with CP for Gordon/Jordan but I could have at least lived with it).
It would have netted us young players allright – but mainly from last year’s mediocre draft, one of whom is also now injured, and another player who is decent but injured most of the time.
Clippers were set to acquire CP3 without surrendering even one good young player and without giving up even a single starting player. It boiled down to one 1st round draft pick whose pick ranking hasn’t even been determined (it could be anywhere from 1 to 30).
Horrible, horrible trade. The Clippers board was almost breaking out the champagne already.
Unfortunately, although Demps is trying his best, we are really getting backed into a corner. After the Lakers deal was rejected, teams can just easily low ball us and there’s absolutely nothing we can do about it.
Cmon now...
You cannot really think the trade with the Lakers was better than this? Aminu is a solid, versatile wing man, Bledsoe although yes recently injured is a young PG with potential, and Kaman has a huge expiring contract, not to mention a decent big man. And if you really think the Minnesota pick would end up 1-30 in the draft, you are kidding yourself… And although I didnt buy in to it, actually the espn reports had Gordon in the trade. Thats a better haul than any other team could offer.
So
you feel Bledsoe and Aminu are players who will at least turn out to be very good rotation players? I’m with MZURK, I don’t. Aminu is worth a flier but keep Bledsoe away from me. If you want youth, you better net guys with better potential. Kaman is actually the best piece there because I feel he could at least net some good youth being an expiring.
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