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NCAA Open Thread

The Hornets play Atlanta at 6 PM Central tonight, but before then, some very good college players take the floor for Ohio State, North Carolina, and Connecticut. So if anyone's hanging out and watching any of these three players today, feel free to stop by here and add your thoughts.

Star-divide

Andre Drummond, C, UConn

11 AM Central - ESPN3.com - UConn vs. Notre Dame

Draft Express Projection: #2

NBADraft.net Projection: #1

Hoops Addict Projection: #2

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Jared Sullinger, PF, Ohio State

12 PM Central - CBS - Ohio State vs. Michigan

Draft Express Projection: #5

NBADraft.net Projection: #5

Hoops Addict Projection: #4

Gyi0064079360_medium


Harrison Barnes, SF, North Carolina


5 PM Central - ESPNU - North Carolina vs. Georgia Tech

Draft Express Projection: #4

NBADraft.net Projection: #4

Hoops Addict Projection: #6

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A Premature Draft Primer

Dec 2011 by Brian Ball - 40 comments

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A Lot of Good Games

Over the weekend in general. I don’t take part in too much of the NCAA Basketball discussions because I honestly just don’t watch much of it (except for my UTSA Roadrunners!!!). I’m more of a watch the film of a player when it’s time for him to go to the NBA kind of guy. The actual college game itself bores me (and I really can’t explain why). I’ve found myself watching a little bit more of it this season due to what I believed was a season killing lockout and also due to an interest in the Hornets future. From watching it, I side with Team Davis here on the boards (and side with Kentucky in real life; they’re stacked).

"You play to win the game."

by MrWayneKeller on Jan 29, 2012 9:49 AM CST reply actions  

I'm torn between Davis or Drummond.

I think Drummond has a higher ceiling (DHoward). Davis’ IMO is Timmy Duncan (actually his athleticism reminds me of David Robinson more, in that he doesn’t move awkwardly for a tall person). I take DHoward over Timmy Duncan. Both are a step above everyone else, IMO.

by RockyMountain on Jan 29, 2012 11:41 AM CST reply actions  

I think

Davis is more Garnett than Duncan.. Duncan was more a drop step, or hook shot type of a low post player. Garnett was more unblockable fadeaway, shimmy shots, or pick and pop type of a player. Looking at Davis profile – a guard before, quick and long – i think he fits the Garnett profile more. That said, I’d take Garnett over DHoward. :) prime Garnett was just, WOW.. There was nothing that guy couldn’t do back in his haydays in MIN. Scored, Rebounded, Assisted, Stole the ball, blocked the ball, took care of the ball, shoot well from the field, shoot well from the FT, be a defensive behemoth. DHoward has a weakness – TOs and FT. Garnett didn’t have any back then. He was just simply WOW. So yeah, Davis over Drummond for me :)

by nikkoewan on Jan 29, 2012 12:14 PM CST up reply actions  

Garnett

Was amazing in his prime indeed. It’s a shame Minnesota never got anybody around him (of course, signing him to that huge contract probably had a lot to do with it; as did the whole Joe Smith fiasco). The one year they did, the team went to the Conference Finals. He was great.

"You play to win the game."

by MrWayneKeller on Jan 29, 2012 12:51 PM CST up reply actions  

No fear

at all that Drummond is unlikely to hit that ceiling?

by RedHopeful on Jan 29, 2012 12:21 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, there's always that too.

And I agree, Davis seems closer to his ceiling than Drummond right now.

by RockyMountain on Jan 29, 2012 1:01 PM CST up reply actions  

Just A Question

You really would take Dwight Howard over Tim Duncan career wise? Or are you talking about this year….

"You play to win the game."

by MrWayneKeller on Jan 29, 2012 12:50 PM CST up reply actions  

I feel like DHoward is more dominant than Duncan on the defensive end.

He pretty much alters any shots around the basket and covers the lane. While TDuncan is more of a power forward, if he plays center, I don’t think he’ll be as dominant as DHoward. DHoward is just more athletic than him.

I know Timmy Duncan has 4 championship rings, but DHoward brought his team to the NBA finals with pretty much no one. Certainly Rashard Lewis << Ginobili, and Turkoglu << Tony Parker. To me, the team wins championship. The players only contribute to that. And IMO DHoward can contribute more than Timmy Duncan.

by RockyMountain on Jan 29, 2012 1:05 PM CST up reply actions  

I Don't Know

You look at those championship teams in 1999 and 2003 and they were among the best defensive teams of all time. In fact, the Spurs have regularly been a great team defensively. Their slip defensively as a unit? I’d say it’s no coincidence it’s coincided with Duncan’s diminished athleticism. Duncan also was able to hit big shots, was never afraid of the big moment and won those championships in 1999 and 2003 with underdeveloped role players. Parker and Ginobili are good now, but Ginobili was a reckless rookie in 2003 and Parker got benched for Speedy Claxton in the NBA Finals.

Tim Duncan’s a top ten player once his career’s over. Dwight’s a top ten player in today’s game. Dwight’s done nothing to warrant being called better than Tim Duncan at anything other than dunks for his career.

"You play to win the game."

by MrWayneKeller on Jan 29, 2012 4:58 PM CST up reply actions  

+1

I think Duncan and Garnett primes are better than DHoward prime.. As I said, DHo has a weakness – TO and FT. you just force DHo to turn the ball over (either by doubling him very quickly or by putting a good defensive C on him like Perk and Tyson) or if he gets down low to much, just foul him. I’d rather he shoot FTs and earn those 2 points, than for him to dunk the ball and get his team’s confidence back.

Duncan and Garnett didn’t really have any weaknesses. In reality, you could say that both of them are very similar yet very different players, Duncan was just more fortunate to have landed on a good organization. They get the same stat lines, but they get it in different ways (as i explained above). so yeah, Duncan/Garnett over DHo any day of the week for me :P

BTW, Duncan DID is a C. Spurs just wanted him to be classified as a PF. But you look at his game and he pretty much plays C for the Spurs. Agreed – Tim Duncan might be a top 20 player once his career is over. Dwight won’t reach that level unless he improves on his weaknesses and helps his team win a championship.

by nikkoewan on Jan 29, 2012 7:54 PM CST up reply actions  

The Big Fundamental

Would fit Dell and Monty’s type of player perfectly

Peyton, I can eat Oreos faster than you!!!!

by mknkachow on Jan 29, 2012 1:04 PM CST reply actions  

I would take either

…Davis or Drummond if we get the chance…and bless my stars…then look to pick up a solid point player with second pick in first round

"I've seen George Foreman shadow box, and the shadow won." Muhammad Ali

by BenDerDonDat on Jan 29, 2012 1:42 PM CST reply actions  

Sullinger in the last 1:58

of a nine point game. 1 Block, 6 points (fast break dunk, drop step and a floater off a drive), 1 defensive rebound.

by usnfish on Jan 29, 2012 1:50 PM CST reply actions  

yeah that was nice

but what was he doing the rest of the game?

by RedHopeful on Jan 29, 2012 2:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Being the Focus

of everything Michigan did on defense? Or is it normal for a SG to have 8 offensive rebounds? I guess the Wolverines putting two bodies on Sullinger every time a shot went up may have contributed to that. Maybe.

by usnfish on Jan 29, 2012 2:24 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah

Red and I disagree a ton but there doesn’t need to be any “I told you so’s” here.

"You play to win the game."

by MrWayneKeller on Jan 29, 2012 4:59 PM CST up reply actions  

usnfish

seems to be pushing the Sullinger pick to the extreme. Love the passion! Keep at it bro! (no sarcasm intended here, just real appreciation for passion to our team.)

by nikkoewan on Jan 29, 2012 7:55 PM CST up reply actions  

Oh, Of Course

This team needs as many people who care about it as possible.

"You play to win the game."

by MrWayneKeller on Jan 29, 2012 8:31 PM CST up reply actions  

Agreed!

As someone who doesn’t like Sullinger, I love reading usnfish’s perspective on him too.

by Rohan on Jan 29, 2012 8:50 PM CST up reply actions  

Hey now

Sullinger is going to be a great pick if the Hornets are in the four-seven slot and he’s available. At no point have I advocated picking him with the number one or two pick. The scenario seems pretty simple to me..

Win the lottery- Pick Davis
Pick before six or so (but not top two)- Pick Sullinger and it’s not the end of the world we didn’t win the lottery because he’s more NBA-ready right now and fits our roster

If we fall into the seven or further range then you get more scared. Is Robinson going to be there? Do you take a chance on Perry III? Terrence Jones? Oh crap we need a PF and all the PFs we REALLY wanted are gone?

That’s the worst case scenario to me, with all the ping pong balls we should have that we pick seventh or worse and the top flight guys (Davis, Sullinger, Robinson) are gone. Second would be a terrible place if Davis goes number one too. You SHOULD take Drummond, but do you want to?

by usnfish on Jan 29, 2012 9:11 PM CST up reply actions  

Team Needs

A big and a PG… arguably the two toughest roster spots to fill in the entire league. It’ll be tough to fill all the needs in this upcoming draft…

"You play to win the game."

by MrWayneKeller on Jan 29, 2012 9:19 PM CST up reply actions  

Well said

I’m in the exact same boat as your with Drummond.

Feels like the quintessential guy you * don’t * want but also can’t pass on.

by Rohan on Jan 29, 2012 9:50 PM CST up reply actions  

Yes..

usnfish was on point on this one. IF we win the lottery, we pick Davis. No question. We don’t win the lottery we pick, Sullinger.

What i don’t want to happen is that we pick 2nd OR we pick 6th below (Sullinger won’t last that long). If we pick 2nd, we are stuck with possibly an uninterested but potential laden Perry Jones or Drummond. Rohan said it best..

Drummond feels like the quintessential guy you “don’t” want but also can’t pass on..

by nikkoewan on Jan 29, 2012 10:33 PM CST up reply actions  

Draftnet

Latest mock has us going third and picking Jeremy Lamb (SG-UConn). That would be a terrible pick since I fully expect (or hope I guess) the Hornets have been sold and locked up Eric Gordon. Why would we possibly draft another SG?

by usnfish on Jan 30, 2012 5:46 AM CST up reply actions  

I think

virtually all mocks are done by bpa at this point and not need

by Rohan on Jan 30, 2012 12:48 PM CST via Android app up reply actions  

It seems like theres more talent at Forwards & Centers than Guards....

I don’t know if its because its we NEED bigs to compete in the Western Conf or maybe I’m just watching bigs in college to see if Jones from Baylor is just as good as Davis or Sullinger is like a LeBron and Drummond talents can’t be ignored/overlooked etc…. I know last year the hoopla was on Kyrie, Jimmer, Brandon Knight, Kemba Walker etc …. We can compare the bigs in this yr’s draft all day because no matter who we get first(will be a F/C), we’ll prob be better for it BUT what Guard pref PG will be available good enough and NBA ready to take off from day 1 of the training camp? Maybe its too early to tell so the media isn’t commenting just yet but if this yr’s draft have very few to choose from, then the big that we do get better be able to compensate for it. Based on what I’ve seen & read so far, the few good Guards available are mosly SGs like John Jenkins of Vandy & Jeremy Lamb out of UConn. Since we already have Gordon for 1 1/2 seasons, maybe we get a SG and trade for THAT PG if he becomes unavailable…

by fshabazz on Jan 29, 2012 3:22 PM CST reply actions  

One prospect that some of you might not of thought about/heard of

Tony Wroten Jr. from Washington. If he declares for the draft I think the team should look at drafting him with the late lottery Minny pick. Watch this video and tell me you don’t want him on the Hornets. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MU9S1ADUCmg

Also, ESPN Insider had an article on Wroten and Davis. Link here: http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/blog?name=nba_draft&id=7456320&slug=nba-draft-new-orleans-hornets-need-draft-anthony-davis-tony-wroten&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba%2fblog%3fname%3dnba_draft%26id%3d7456320%26_slug_%3dnba-draft-new-orleans-hornets-need-draft-anthony-davis-tony-wroten

"Sleeping on me probably in the coffin" - Tyga
Rally Squirrel will steal yo gurl.
SANI BOOOOOY!!!
Follow me on Twitter @onpointlikecp3

by OnPointLikeCP3 on Jan 29, 2012 9:18 PM CST reply actions  

Rohan and I

Both have mentioned Wroten as a potential pick with the later pick. His lack of range is slightly concerning but range can be developed later (see Rose, Derrick). Leftys just play the game a little differently. Wroten is flashy (to a fault at times) so I do wonder if he’s the kind of player Demps and Williams would draft. I would think they would lean towards a Kendall Marshall-esque PG.

by usnfish on Jan 29, 2012 9:33 PM CST up reply actions  

My dream is

We nab Wroten with a THIRD pick that we somehow finagle out of a Kaman deal.

by Rohan on Jan 29, 2012 9:52 PM CST up reply actions  

Nice, thanks

I know you’ve been high on Wroten since like November haha

by Rohan on Jan 29, 2012 9:51 PM CST up reply actions  

For all of you that don't have Insider.

I found the full article. (I wouldn’t pay for insider either)

In 2006, fortune smiled on the NHL’s Chicago Blackhawks. Mired in nearly two decades of mediocrity, the Blackhawks were blessed with two top picks in the 2006 and 2007 NHL entry drafts. With those two picks, the Blackhawks drafted two future All-Stars in Jonathan Toews and Patrick Kane. By 2010, Toews and Kane had led Chicago to its first Stanley Cup championship since 1961.

Thanks to the blockbuster Chris Paul trade in December, the New Orleans Hornets netted what was originally the Timberwolves’ unprotected first-round pick. With that, the Hornets have the opportunity to land two franchise-changing players with two likely lottery picks in the 2012 draft. The 2012 draft class is considered deep and talented. The 2012 picks would join a Hornets team that already is built with three recent high lottery picks plus a late first-rounder who held his own as a rookie last season.

If they luck into good positions in the draft lottery and select well, an NBA championship might be on the Hornets’ horizon down the road. Current draft-eligible players New Orleans should target based on its current composition are Kentucky’s Anthony Davis, Kansas’ Thomas Robinson, Ohio State’s Jared Sullinger, Washington’s Tony Wroten, and North Carolina’s Harrison Barnes and John Henson, who could help address at least two of three Hornets problems:

Problem 1: Two ineffective small forwards

Shooting guard Eric Gordon is by far the best of the three young lottery talents the Hornets currently have on the team. However, the two other players, small forwards Al-Farouq Aminu and Xavier Henry, have yet to establish themselves. Aminu started last season on fire from the 3-point line, but once his shot stopped falling he produced very little. He’s a super-long and agile big man who could be a perfect 4, as he can be electric attacking bigs or any time he has the ball in the paint. Instead, since it is easier to float outside as a small forward, he chooses to float on the perimeter far more than he should and often looks indifferent to defending.

Henry remains a mystery; he’s done so little in the NBA thus far. Big and strong with a nice stroke, he potentially could play both wing positions. It’s also possible he’s unplayable and will spend most of this season in the D-League. Henry was soundly beaten out last season by converted power player Sam Young. Neither Aminu nor Henry guarantees the Hornets won’t take a small forward in this year’s draft.

Enter Anthony Davis.

Like almost every other team, New Orleans would love to have Davis, but better than most the Hornets have good ability to help Davis reach his potential. Under head coach Monty Williams, the Hornets always will be a defense-first team, one that defends important areas on the floor and tries to force teams to shoot over arms (as opposed to teams more focused on creating chaos). Davis, therefore, will be challenged not to just rely on his reach and bounce to be an effective defender, but to learn his rotation duties and to get to his “spots” quickly. This will make him more effective as a defender and help him block more shots.

If the Hornets get Davis, the need for power forwards like Thomas Robinson or John Henson is mitigated. But Sullinger is another matter. Carl Landry is probably the most underrated frontcourt player in the NBA, capable of scoring in the post, on drives, from the perimeter and on the free throw line. Sullinger would give the Hornets a second post scorer and an extra big body in a league that covets both.

Problem 2: The missing point guard

The biggest hole for the Hornets, as expected, is the one created by Paul’s trade to L.A. Jarrett Jack is a solid player and someone who can run a team, but looking forward he’s probably best utilized as a veteran presence off the bench. Greivis Vasquez played very well at times last season. However, he, too, likely profiles as a career backup point guard.

So the Hornets might look to Tony Wroten Jr. with their second overall pick (provided it is not in the top seven or so). If Wroten, a freshman, enters the NBA draft, he presents an ideal candidate for New Orleans as a pick outside the top seven, as he projects as the top point guard in this draft class.

To be sure, he’s dynamic at both scoring and passing, but needs lots of development. Drafting Wroten, while keeping two veteran point guards like Jack and Vasquez, would give the Hornets the requisite time to properly develop Wroten. Another thing to consider: Wroten is very long and has good size and could guard most NBA shooting guards. So he would pair well with Gordon. Certainly Wroten still has some work to do at Washington this season to solidify himself as a lottery selection. My guess is the Hornets are hoping he does.

Problem 3: The injury-prone shooting guard

Certainly the prize of the Chris Paul trade was the acquisition of Gordon. He is a proven slasher/shooter who could be the top scorer on any future Hornets team. Gordon, though, has not proved to be even remotely durable in his young career, so New Orleans should consider a top shooting guard, if one is available, as a contingency to any Gordon injury.

Barnes would fit that billing, as someone who initially could help fill in for Gordon when injured, as well as force Aminu and Henry to improve and develop. A starting lineup of Gordon and Barnes on the wing would be formidable in time. Barnes has shown his ability to score from the perimeter and has the skills to penetrate and create his own shot, though he has not been asked to do so this season on a stacked Tar Heels team.

Of course, having two high draft picks never guarantees good players. To be sure the Hornets have some homework to do and things can change between now and draft day in July. Indeed, in 2001, another Chicago team, the Chicago Bulls, also had two high draft picks and laid the foundation of its future squarely on the shoulders of high schoolers Tyson Chandler and Eddy Curry, a decision that produced exorbitantly poor results.

"Sleeping on me probably in the coffin" - Tyga
Rally Squirrel will steal yo gurl.
SANI BOOOOOY!!!
Follow me on Twitter @onpointlikecp3

by OnPointLikeCP3 on Jan 29, 2012 11:07 PM CST up reply actions  

Hahah thanks

Bookmarked this to read tomorrow

by Rohan on Jan 29, 2012 11:10 PM CST up reply actions  

at first I thought you were going to say you had to delete it

“COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT”

WE SHALL NOT GIVE THOSE ESPN SCMUBAGS ANY OF OUT MONEY!!!

"Sleeping on me probably in the coffin" - Tyga
Rally Squirrel will steal yo gurl.
SANI BOOOOOY!!!
Follow me on Twitter @onpointlikecp3

by OnPointLikeCP3 on Jan 29, 2012 11:37 PM CST up reply actions  

Dream draft would be

Davis, Wroten and some other dude =)) maybe Quincy Miller from Baylor or Cody Zeller from Indiana. Maybe even Jeremy Lamb from Connecticut..

Davis Wroten plus any of those 3 dudes would be a spectacular draft for Demps the man!

by nikkoewan on Jan 29, 2012 10:35 PM CST reply actions  

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