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A Penny For My Thoughts

[Bumped from the FanPosts. I've obviously been on record as supporting the current rebuilding plan; 504life provides a great opposing viewpoint here, both in terms of short and long term implications. - Rohan]

Remember back in the fourth grade how there was that one dorky kid, a loner, and completely awkward with pretty much everything? Then, as you began to grow up and progress through each and every school year and witness certain changes in your body, voice, and hormones, you also witnessed that dorky kid hit a serious growth spurt over the summer, and he had apparently started working out, not to mention he ditched the glasses for contacts, rediscovered styling gel, and recently got his braces removed. Everyone was pretty shocked on the first day of school to see this "new" guy. He was still not totally different, as there were some nuances with his personality that may or may work themselves out, but on the whole, he was a drastically different person on the outside. That guy is the Minnesota Timberwolves.

It's interesting to see a team that had been a joke for the last few years finally start to turn it around, and the Wolves are apparently doing just that. Paying top dollar to land Rick Adelman was perhaps GM David Kahn's best move, and at last, there's someone in the coaching position who has the ability to get the young talent of the Timberwolves to mesh together into a totally cohesive unit in all phases of the game. The franchise is renewing trends it hasn't seen since the prime days of Kevin Garnett when he sported a Minnesota jersey. The experienced coach Rick Adelman has a fantastically talented group of players in their youth who have shown incredible promise for the future. Kevin Love is playing like a top five NBA player; he simply does it all, from everywhere. No one in the league now rebounds like he does night in and night out, and it's a shocker when he DOESN'T rip down at least fifteen boards a game. Ricky Rubio has at long last made his triumphant arrival to the NBA where he has thus far dazzled columnists, bloggers (I'm looking at you Zach Harper, with your puppy breath and cinnamon hashtags), and spectators alike with his smoothness on the court as well as his antics off of it that let the media and all who watch him fall in love.

Star-divide

Also, note that Adelman is getting good work from Michael Beasley, Darko Milicic, and Luke Ridnour, turning one time afterthoughts into serviceable and often productive starters on his youth-laden squad of basketball squires. Sprinkle in a little bit of J.J. Barea and Derrick Williams and you have quite the exciting team. This is a complete 180 of what fans saw last year when the Wolves ended with yet another top lottery selection after yet another putrid season. The Wolves are working their way back to relevance in not just the Western Conference, but in the rest of the league, and that is incredibly unfortunate for our New Orleans Hornets.

Witnessing the Wolves actually play to their potential was a sneaking truth that many Hornets fans did not want to admit. Many of us had talked ourselves into honestly believing that we could have the top two picks in the draft. Though it's still possible, it's highly unlikely to happen barring a disastrous (and also unlikely) meltdown. Hornets fans will more likely be looking at a draft pick in the late teens instead of what many suspected to be a surefire top ten selection, and that can do quite a bit of damage to the outlook of this team and their plan to build with aspirations of a championship team built around Eric Gordon (maybe).

Should the pick wind up becoming anything less than a mid-lottery pick, the Hornets MIGHT be in trouble down the road primarily because the plan to rebuild through the draft will have taken a turn in an unknown direction when the outcome is much higher up in the air. Now, how do you sell that to a fan-base lacking the masses that keep even the worst of teams profitable? Let's be honest here, you will have a hard time getting prospective fans to bite on "potential", draft picks, and future cap space, especially in a city and region completely dominated by football. So, as we start to witness what this season is going to look like and gauge the reactions and feelings to losing of us die-hard fans, we can only imagine how this looks to casual and prospective fans; it's a sharp detractor.

I really, really hate to be a downer, and normally I'm as optimistic as they come, but there's really a lot riding on this plan. Perhaps not as much as I'm suggesting, but one thing is obvious, and it's that things are really screwed up. Not just with the Hornets organization, but with the entire league and the foundations it is built on. Any direction the Hornets take is a cop out to the fans. Rebuild now and the ten thousand fans that bought into the "I'm In" campaign get a huge slap in the face while attempting to convince them that Eric Gordon, "pieces", and future savings is a huge return for Chris Paul.

Acquire established players and you can fool the audiences with what appears to be a contending team, but really it's just enough to grab a middle seed in the post-season and get washed out by the second round. But the team led by David Stern and the NBA has made sure that the Hornets rebuild. If Chris Paul was going to leave the Hornets on Stern's watch, he was going to leave under Stern's rule. Stern made a choice that assured the team would struggle this year and probably next, with the future hopefully getting brighter after that. But the risk is enormous. The plan could backfire completely and leave Stern, the Hornets, and whoever the next owner is, looking like utter fools.

Making a successful rebuild in a similar model to that of the Oklahoma City Thunder requires far more luck than careful planning and positioning. Remember that the Seattle SuperSonics, not the OKC Thunder, drafted Kevin Durant; I'm insinuating that the team moved shortly thereafter. When the Sonics arrived in OKC they were greeted by a humble and excited fan-base that would support them win or lose, something the New Orleans Hornets simply don't have. People don't show up to games because they've been given nothing solid to look forward to. Warriors fans filed in for games the past few years to see an exciting offense that could put up 130 points a night. Clippers fans packed the Staples Center to go goo-goo at Blake Griffin's explosiveness. The bad teams offered excitement in the form of explosive offense to draw in people to watch games. Organizations knew that their teams weren't going anywhere that year, but they still managed to make profit by supplying an entertaining product that reeled in those casual fans. Of course, they also benefited from being in large markets.

Again, the Hornets just cannot win in this situation. They're not going to win a whole lot of games this season, and they are not going to score in any special fashion. Winning and offense is what get those casual fans into the arenas, none of those things are in New Orleans. The icing on the cake is the open comments by Monty Williams that this team has no offensive philosophy. If you're not going to win games any time soon, the best option would at least be to put an entertaining product on the floor so that the team may show up on the good side of ESPN's top 10 plays, but that is not the way our team is currently constructed, and likely never will be under Monty Williams.

Now I'm not knocking Monty as a coach, but I will admit he's still got some growing to do. In the current system of the NBA, fans are not attracted to defense, and solid defenders named Okafor and Ariza are not going to put fans in seats. People are attracted to the offense brought by a player like Eric Gordon who may or may not become a superstar, and no one is talking about those other guys. A rebuild in this market is perhaps the worst case scenario for Monty. He's a defensive minded coach with an offense that lacks serious playmakers and regularly bottoms out the league in offensive pace. It's difficult to watch this team night in and night out, especially for people who don't quite understand the sport, and couple the slow pace with more and more losing efforts and you are bound to struggle to sell your product to consumers.

In the Lakers trade, you could sell prospective fans on the idea of Kevin Martin being your leading scorer, Scola averaging 20 and 10, and Odom being a dynamic player off the bench. Prospective fans would definitely buy into that because they could YouTube those players and see some brilliant play. The team would be lacking a potential star, but the media could feed fans information that would suggest a bigger move coming next or the pieces possibly luring a superstar to come and play for the team next season. It would have hugely benefited the team in the short term enough to continue to build off of the momentum of the "I'm In" campaign, and it also would have left the team with more movable parts in case they planned on going into full rebuild mode. Instead, Stern chose a different business model for the Hornets, one that halted ticket sales momentum and is far less likely to work and requires an incredible amount of luck.

You rarely see teams build through the draft anymore. Yes, the Thunder did it, but it took them quite awhile and a ton of luck, and even still they're probably not going to beat a team like the Heat in the Finals. This is why I question the business model that David Stern has chosen. This sort of rebuild can work in certain markets, ones that are not struggling to meet attendance benchmarks, but in this small market, it's a giant risk, one that was blindly taken. There's a bit of a double standard for the real philosophy of teams in the NBA. Many fans believe that the ultimate goal is to win a championship, at all costs. But depending on the size of the market, that may only be half true. In big markets like Los Angeles, New York, Boston, Dallas, and Miami, that is very true. All of those organizations have shown the willingness to spend the money needed to win a title. Notice I said "spend money", not "develop the talent".

In smaller markets, the plan is different and the goal is to win enough, not necessarily a championship. Occasionally, a small market team will come across an elite level talent or two and develop them into great players and have a championship run for a few good years, and then eventually they fizzle out and have to flounder in obscurity for years before/if they catch lightning in a bottle again. That's essentially what the Spurs have done as they wave goodbye to the Tim Duncan era.

Rebuilding through the draft takes a long time and a lot of bad basketball, two things that this team is not in position to handle, but Dell Demps (or really, the ghost of Dell Demps) has said that the team is not going to cut any corners in the process, but really, they already have by acquiring Eric Gordon who's already due for an extension. With the already rapidly declining value of the Minnesota pick, a headliner of the Chris Paul trade, it would be a wise move to ship it out in a package for a rising young player that has already shown something in the NBA. Trading away the pick and Okafor for a player like DeMarcus Cousins is an absolute steal, and that's something the Hornets should be looking at potentially doing. Something like that can expedite the rebuilding process while still maintaining your own draft position, perhaps bettering it in the short term. As a fan, I would have a lot of interest in a core of Gordon, Cousins, and whoever this year's first rounder is. That's something you can really sell to fans because the core is already in place and now they must grow with each other and front offices must surround them with the right veteran players and system.

Whatever the case, one thing is certain and it's that this organization needs more changes in a lot of areas in order to milk the market it is in. They cannot use the "Lakers trade business model", and must commit to David Stern's ideal vision of rebuilding. This basically puts the team in an impossible spot, and a place that requires many random variables to fall in the right direction. If this team ever wants to rebuild successfully, there's no room for an Okafor, an Ariza, a Landry as a starter, or a Jarrett Jack as a team captain. Those guys will all have to go sooner rather than later, and the sooner they go, the better it will be for the outlook of the team. But until those guys go, we will continue to have one of the least effective offensive teams in the league and be a burden on the eyes and mind to watch play. For now, the goal should have been to round up a team of players that can win some games and compete in the Western Conference. It would have allowed casual fans to become more involved because the team is winning, developing them into more of a hardcore type fan. This establishes a firmer fan-base that the team can use to make riskier moves like a rebuilding process. Seattle opted to rebuild without a large enough, dedicated fan-base, and in the end, the Sonics became the Thunder of Oklahoma City because there was no profit or patience in that market. And since the team left, more and more people have cried out wanting a team back, proving the coined phrase "you don't know what you've got until it's gone". That's something New Orleans is all too familiar with after losing the Jazz years ago.

Where does the team go from here? How can it be consistently successful and profitable? How long will fans have to wait for this to happen? The organization can rebuild the old fashioned way, they can rebuild in a hybrid sort of way, or they could acquire veteran players to win enough for the next few years. In any case, there's still a lot of waiting needed before this team can achieve the stated goal of winning a championship, but no matter what route they take, it may all be for nothing because uncontrollable aspects just did not work out in favor of basketball in New Orleans.

The Hornets can't win in any scenario without a miracle, and miracles don't happen often in the NBA. That's especially true if you don't have a superstar player. But miracles are something that sports fans in New Orleans have come to expect and have hope in, and this hope is probably unfounded, yet it still resides in the backs of our minds. For now, there will be no miracle though. Not until the Hornets can gain more footing in New Orleans rather than have one foot out of the door. The only thing I can say is that for right now, we all need to care about our team because they're a big deal to us. So, Hornets fans, keep those fingers crossed because this could be an even longer, more tiresome journey than we could have ever anticipated.

Poll
As a fan, which trade would you have liked to see go through more?
Lakers
20 votes
Clippers
62 votes

82 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 24 comments  |  2 recs  | 

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I actually prefer the Clippers trade

But I just felt under the current circumstances that the Hornets organization is under, maybe the Lakers trade would have been better for the financial future of the team and building a solid foothold with fans.

"I've been big ever since I was little." - William "The Refrigerator" Perry
Follow me on the twitter machine @zacleto

by 504life on Jan 3, 2012 7:25 PM CST reply actions  

Gotcha

It’s a really interesting question, and I’m interested to see how this poll shakes out. Obviously a small segment of the internet, which represents a small segment of all Hornets fans won’t be * too * representative but still

by Rohan on Jan 3, 2012 7:28 PM CST up reply actions  

My main problem with building up fan support first before building a long term contender

basically comes down to how great a shot we have at rebuilding right now.

Totally agree with you on the devaluation of the Minnesota pick… it could be well into the 13-17 range of the draft and totally not worth the haggling we did to ultimately get it.

But Gordon (who’s max-contract worthy in my opinion) and a top 7 to 8 pick in what looks to be the best draft since 2003 is, and you allude to this to, a damn good rebuilding package. It’s questionable whether a future rebuilding effort (after building up fan support from a couple Martin-Odom-Scola seasons) will immediately see pieces like this. It’ll take us a lot of luck now too… but there’s some light at the end of the tunnel already.

Especially if we hang onto Monty (and his defense), in which case I don’t think we need a true superstar to be a contender.

by Rohan on Jan 3, 2012 7:35 PM CST reply actions  

Also, this is a great line
The only thing I can say is that for right now, we all need to care about our team because they’re a big deal to us.

Should be the takeaway for everyone, regardless of which side of the poll you fall on

by Rohan on Jan 3, 2012 7:35 PM CST reply actions  

I vote the Clippers

just because it is easier to sell a young player than a host of veterans.. on the other side, i think it also offers the better rebuilding package. However, due to recent mishaps (Gordon injury), we are left with a lot of questions, questions that WILL be answered when Gordon plays a few more games this season. (Can we reach the playoffs? Can Gordon become the top player on a team? How does everybody else react to Gordon’s play?)

That said, i think people are becoming pessimistic for the wrong reasons. Yes, we are in a tight spot due to market and basketball reasons. However, people might be exaggerating on the Minnesota pick devaluation.

I am fairly confident that it will still be a lottery pick, although it will prolly be the 12th to 14th pick. Why? Because Love is playing at a RIDICULOUS rate, one which I think he will not be able to sustain. so although it looks like they will be a playoff team after 5 games ( mind you THAT is still a very small sample), i really think some players will regress to their mean. Heck, Milicic is playing above league average ball at .128 WS/48 when he’s a career 0.043 WS/48..

I think Love will settle somewhere around 0.230 WS/48, and everybody will regress to their mean (maybe except for Ridnour who’ll just bottom out at around .150 WS/48)

i still stand by my assessment that the top 8 in the West are as follows:

1.) OKC
2.) DEN
3.) LAL
4.) MAVS
5.) POR
6.) LAC
7.) MEM
8.) SAS (although this will be a question mark. Ginobili is out for a month, and who knows how many games are played in a month in this shortened season. However, i hate to vote against Popovich, who will get the most out of this team YET again.)

besides that you still have HOU waiting in the win with a pretty talented, veteran group of players that will play better than what is expected of them.

that alone makes me confident that we will have a lottery pick out of that team.

I agree though, we need to hang on to Monty and his defense if we’re ever going to want to become contenders. As Rohan so gladly explained, Monty takes us almost halfway through contendership last year, even with the injuries we had to deal with last year. Firing him just because his offensive philosophy is not exciting will take us a step backward, after taking 2 steps backward with that CP3 trade. If we can just draft a rookie who’s skills fit both the team and Monty’s philosophy (yes, i am talking about MKG), then with Demps’ ability to scour the world for talent unknown to others (thanks SAS) then we as I said, we may become playoff contenders sooner rather than later. And I stick by my prediction that playoffs in a year or two, contenders in 3 or 5 years. I value the Dell and Monty combo that much

by nikkoewan on Jan 3, 2012 8:13 PM CST reply actions  

Denver

Don’t understand the infatuation with Denver which seems to be common. I see them as being close to the bottom of the playoff bracket.

My top 8 are currently as follows:

1. OKC
2. Portland
3. Mavs
4. LAL
5. Clippers
6. SAS
7. Denver
8. Memphis or Houston or Minnesota

Cheers.

by MZURK on Jan 3, 2012 9:16 PM CST up reply actions  

either way, my point still stands.

you forgot to put LAC there (maybe you didn’t LOL) but still, the fact that we have 4 teams vying for the 8th spot bodes well to the pick being a lottery pick(low lottery, but nonetheless lottery).

by nikkoewan on Jan 4, 2012 1:57 AM CST up reply actions  

Clippers = LAC

Not aware of any Clippers other than the LA variety.

It’s too early to tell only 5 ot 6 games into the season, but there’s a fair chance that Minnesota may be a lot better than people realize.

The only thing that is preventing me from putting them firmly in the playoff category is that, it’s unclear how long their surge will last. However, in these early games, they’ve certainly played like a playoff team. They’re unlucky not to be 4-1 in fact.

But in any case, yeah, so if it’s 12th to 14th pick? Ok, but wasn’t one of the key points of this deal that Minnesota’s first round pick an “unprotected” pick? An “unprotected” pick is a lot less exciting at the end of the lottery. In fact, the 14th pick is pretty much the same as the 15th pick, except the 15th picking team also gets a crack at the playoffs.

Further, the NY first round pick that was largely ignored in assessments of the Lakers trade, was also presumably “unprotected”.

by MZURK on Jan 4, 2012 6:23 AM CST up reply actions  

Lakers deal all the way

As I have continued to insist from the very beginning, the Lakers deal was the best possible option and we were totally screwed by David Stern when he nixed that trade.

If the Knicks’ first round pick that we would have gotten in the Lakers trade is anywhere near the Minnesota pick, then this will only add an exclamation point to my argument.

I think fans completely underestimate the risk of the Clippers deal and some of those risks are already starting to present themselves. Gordon, while definitely a star level player, has been an increasing injury risk every season he has played and we are seeing that. The Minnesota pick, as I warned, has a risk of not being as valuable as people had figured—and to make matters worse, the Knicks pick that we will not get but could have gotten, as I also warned, has a risk of being much more valuable than people had understood.

I will continue to cheer for the Hornets and for the players that we have—that’s what it means to be a fan of the team. However, I feel that we got a raw deal. I think that my prediction of playoffs in 2 to 4+ years is not only realistic it’s probably looking optimistic at this point.

I will root for the Hornets, but I think we are screwed.

by MZURK on Jan 3, 2012 9:13 PM CST reply actions  

i agree with some your points

“I will continue to cheer for the Hornets and for the players that we have—that’s what it means to be a fan of the team.” loved this line :)

by nikkoewan on Jan 4, 2012 1:59 AM CST up reply actions  

Yep

I think that shows you’re a true fan of the Hornets.

by MZURK on Jan 4, 2012 6:24 AM CST up reply actions  

It's Arguable

That the Lakers deal was all that much better. Minnesota and New York may finish around the same area this year, I believe (the best bet is on New York finishing with a better record than Minnesota over the full course of the season), so you’re looking at a pick that’s relatively the same when it comes to the draft picks. As it relates to the individual players, it’s very arguable that this Clippers deal even provided the better players for the Hornets. Looking at Lamar Odom play on Dallas, and remembering when he was with the Clippers, I’m convinced he needs to be on a team with a legendary head coach and with someone who will keep him in check. Which is ridiculous because he’s not good enough to warrant that star treatment, but it is what it is with him. Luis Scola and Kevin Martin are collectively better than Eric Gordon and Chris Kaman, but Gordon’s the best player out of the entire bunch and it’s tough to imagine the team would be any better offensively had Martin and Scola and Dragic come to play in the Big Easy. It looks like it would have been a good “short term move” but it’s not concrete that it is. If that’s the case, then the Lakers deal is entirely negated because that’s the only merit it solved. I don’t think the Hornets would have made the playoffs this season with that team; I don’t think they’ll make the playoffs with this team. But the other deal was to keep the team competitive, something that this team as constructed can still do.

As far as Minnesota, they’re pretty good and they’ll be competitive all year long. They’re a year away from the postseason but Rick Adelman is a top ten coach in this league and I’m not surprised at all at what they’re doing. I wonder if it’s sustainable but, even if it’s not, they have a lot to be happy about there.

There’s going to be pessimists on either side of the deal. All we can really do is just cheer for the Hornets, pray that the support trickles to others for the organization and hope for the best long term.

Great article by the way it’s worth the entire read.

"You play to win the game."

by MrWayneKeller on Jan 3, 2012 9:54 PM CST reply actions  

Great Post

I am of the minority opinion that the Lakers deal was a better deal. This post brings up a lot of the reasons why.

by Huang Feng on Jan 3, 2012 10:13 PM CST reply actions  

how sure are you?

will the Knicks be the team with the worst record among playoff teams? Me is thinking – NO.

that means they will have a separation of approximately 3~7 picks (MIN will be somewhere between 12 and 14, while NY pick will be somewhere between 17 and 19)
a pick in the 12 to 14 range has an average simple rating of 13.57 while a pick in the 17 to 19 range has an average simple rating of 11.5. that’s a difference of almost 2.07, which coupled with the fact that the Lakers trade makes us better short term, but no better long term, and that after 2~3 years, only 2 players will remain – one of them will be an old, semi-productive but not cost efficient PF in Scola, and a probably newly resigned Dragic – makes the Clippers trade even better because we not only get a possible future star in Gordon for AT LEAST 2 years (if he signs the qualifying offer, 4 years if he signs the extension), a rotation player (who fits the Monty mold BTW) in Aminu, then i’d rather have Gordon, Aminu + higher pick + Min pick than Scola, Dragic, + lower pick + NY pick(even if, Martin resigns, which i doubt, considering the fact that he’s 30~31 by then, and will be looking for a payday from a contending team. We will probably be not that).

by nikkoewan on Jan 4, 2012 2:14 AM CST up reply actions  

some responses
“will the Knicks be the team with the worst record among playoff teams? Me is thinking – NO.”

Honestly, I don’t think it’s even a certainty that the Knicks will be a playoff team this season. There is plenty of evidence to suggest that the Knicks could struggle. I’ve pointed out a few arguments. Here are three cold hard damning facts about NY:

1. Carmelo-led teams have never accomplished much in the absence of a strong experienced team leader like Billups.

2. NY played below 0.500 after they acquired Carmelo last year.
NY barely squaked into the playoffs with ’Melo and got swept 0-4 after they got there.

3. Denver played a LOT better after Carmelo was traded. They had a ridiculous something like +12 per game after the trade.

Here are some soft arguments not necessarily supported by facts, but considered to be true by many:

1. Neither Carmelo nor Stoudamire are “leaders”.

2. Neither Carmelo nor Stoudamire are dedicated defenders.

3. Carmelo is badly overrated, partly because he’s generates a lot of headlines during the past year and a half, leading many people to conclude that he’s a lot more significant and important than he really is.

I’d further like to add that, in my opinion, the Knicks do not have any player capable of playing PG as a starter who understands how to play PG.

Putting all those together, and I think there is plenty of hard and soft evidence to suspect that the Knicks have a real possibility of imploding rather than exploding. There are counter arguments, of course, like that they now have Chanlder, their recent draft picks Landry and Imam look solid, etc. Those are valid points of course, but I’m saying it’s unclear how this is going to go.

Lakers trade makes us better short term, but no better long term.

I would characterize the Lakers trade as making us better in the short term, with the luxury of haivng the ability to further trade the short term at our leisure for more longer term prospects, if that is what we wanted. Of course we could have traded some or all of Odom, Scola, or Martin for younger promising players and/or draft picks, if we had wanted. But we would not have been forced to trade them. That’s the luxury of having a team that is immediately competitive, you can always just go with what you’ve got, but you don’t have to. Also, again there is that NY 1sr rounder, plus our 1st rounder… still a fair chance of getting a good young player.

one of them will be an old, semi-productive but not cost efficient PF in Scola

I have to disagree about Scola, who is one of the more underrated and underpaid players in the league. His stats were identical to David West’s last season, and I mean identical. Around 20ppg, 8rpg, around 50% shooting. And he produced that for a mere $8 million. He has small incremental raises in his contract like just about any other player.

This year, he will be making around $8.5 million, and most likely, he will produce again around 18-20 ppg, and 7 ot 8 rpg. Now let’s compare that to David West who will make $10 million this year with Indiana. Will West really be the same 20/8/50% player that he was last year? It’s highly doubtful in light of his ACL issue. I think he’ll still be pretty good, but I think the point is that, while Scola will be putting in his 20/8/50% for $8.5 mill, West will be doing below at least slightly below 20/8/50% for $10 mill (frankly, my guess is that it will be more like 16/7/47%).

Meanwhile, Scola has played all 82 games 3 out of the 4 seasons he’s been in the league and has raised his scoring average EVERY year including last. Before we start talking about how he’s old and semi-productive, I’d first like to see him reach a plateu in his production.

Even if he is a little overpaid at the end of his contract and if his contract is a little longer than necessary, you have to understand that that’s the price of having him be an underpaid player right now and probably next year, and at 20/8/50% for around $8 million, underpaid is really what he is.

Just some thoughts.

by MZURK on Jan 4, 2012 7:00 AM CST up reply actions  

Yup

Exactly why I liked the post so much too.

Disagree with the overall picture, but see the logic behind each individual point. (And like 504 said earlier, he likes the Clips deal too).

I think people like Huang Feng and MZURK on the Lakers side of it, as well as those on the Clips both have viable points here. No side is “right” beyond any question, so it’s great to get the opposing viewpoint

by Rohan on Jan 4, 2012 3:17 AM CST up reply actions  

+1

it’s these kinds of discussions that make me love being a Hornets fan – educated and non-derogatory debates that help enrich both sides.

I can see the logic behind each trade, but as I’ve said, I’m on the Clips side. :)

by nikkoewan on Jan 4, 2012 4:51 AM CST up reply actions  

Great post, but I am also on the “Clippers side” of things. Maybe it is irrelevant, but another minor aspect ( not concerning the Hornets directly) was to not see CP3 in a Lakers jersey – but that is besides the point.
My worries are that Gordon keeps getting injured over and over again. He wouldnt be worth the max, if that was the case. Although, there might not be any better SG in the league 3 years from now – its a gamble. I still believe Minni wont make the playoffs and get us a pick around the 10 mark. And if Sheridan (whom I dont really like) is right with his assesment that “Wednesday vs. Philly begins a 16-game losing streak to close the month of January.”, we could get a very good pick with our own pick.
Demps will be dealing this season, he just has to! Maybe we get a Cousins and fill that center position for the future. After that we would have to fill two positions that could be filled with amazing talent from the draft even if we dont have a top 5 selection. Michael Kidd-Gilchrist (for that SF position) will be great and there are many great PF in this years draft, even with later selections.
We already have a coming superstar (if he stays healthy) in Gordon. Lets see what else Demps conjures up this season.

by berlinhornets on Jan 4, 2012 4:39 AM CST reply actions  

I'm coming to this a little late...

but I really like the idea of trading for Cousins if the deal includes Hassan Whiteside. I think that would sort the Centre position long term and as 504life says, Gordon and Cousins would be the core of a team worth watching. We’d have a starting five of…

Jack
Gordon
Ariza
Ayon
Cousins

and a young bench including

Vasquez
Henry
Aminu
Smith
Whiteside

We’d still have Kaman, Bellinelli and Landry all on expiring deals that might tempt someone to take Ariza or Jack and give us a starting point guard in return – I don’t think Jack is the point to take us forward. Vasquez will probably become a good back-up but I’d rather have a proven starter at point with so much youth on the roster. I’m hoping our own pick will be high enough to get MKG but there aren’t any top quality points in the draft so it’s a position you’d have to trade for.

Hornets 2012/13

Point??
Gordon
Kidd-Gilchrist
Ayon
Cousins

i think that’s worth watching and depending on the development some of our young guys get this year, maybe worth a push for the play-offs too.

by Andy Brooke on Jan 15, 2012 3:08 PM CST reply actions  

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