Trading Chris Kaman: Indiana Pacers Edition
On Friday, the New Orleans Hornets made it clear that Chris Kaman has played his last game for the team; Dell Demps, David Stern, and the front office are actively seeking trade options. Since the announcement, Kaman has missed two straight games - a home blowout of the Orlando Magic on Friday followed by a home blowout at the hands of the Atlanta Hawks yesterday. In both cases, the box score has listed him, rather uniquely as a "DNP - Organizational Decision."
The Houston Rockets, Indiana Pacers, and San Antonio have been the three reported front runners for Kaman's services via a trade. On Saturday, we looked at possible trade options with the Houston Rockets, concluding that some combination of 1. Hasheem Thabeet, 2. Jonny Flynn/Jordan Hill/Courtney Lee, 3. the lower of their and New York's 2012 1st round picks could be a possible return.
Today, let's move onto the Indiana Pacers, the home of former Hornets Darren Collison, David West, and James Posey.
From the Rockets column, here is the relevant information on Chris Kaman's contract itself:
Trade Restrictions
There are two primary restrictions that affect Chris Kaman trades
(1) he can't be moved in multi-player deals until February 14th (60 days after the Chris Paul trade). The NBA trade deadline comes about a month after this date - March 15th
(2) per the new CBA, teams that pay the luxury tax "can acquire no more than 125 percent plus $100,000 of the salaries they trade away," and teams that are under the luxury tax (after a trade has been made) "can acquire up to the lesser of 150 percent plus $100,000, or 100 percent plus $5 million of the salaries they trade away."
This means it's theoretically easier to trade Kaman's contract now than it would have been before the lockout. San Antonio is the only team among the three that is in the luxury threshold, but they're close enough to the line that a potential deal could put them under the tax (and make the 150% rule applicable).
Don't let the "150% + 100K or 100% + 5M" line confuse you too much. The 150% rule will always be the lesser up to a difference of $9.8M in the incoming to outgoing salary in the trade. More on this in one second.
Chris Kaman's Contract
Chris Kaman is due $13,672,927 this season, which includes a $1,472,927 trade kicker he received for being dealt from the Clippers. There's a little quirk with the kicker itself that needs to be sorted here. Kaman's pre-kicker salary - about $12,200,00 - is used in the calculation to match salaries between the two trading teams.
If we refer back to the 150% line for a second, this means that the Hornets have a well-defined range of contract values they can acquire back in a Kaman deal - $8.13M to $18.3M. You can see now how the 100% rule can't ever come into play in a potential Kaman deal. This is, of course, operating under the assumption that the Hornets' trading partners will also be under the luxury tax line after any trade has been completed.
A rapid summary:
- Kaman can't be in multiplayer deals till February 14th, without trade exceptions
- Kaman's salary for trade purposes is $12.2M
- Hornets must take back between $8.13M and $18.3M in any trade to a team over the cap but under the tax.
Indiana Pacers
Players, Salaries, Trade Exceptions, and Draft Pick (protection in parentheses) Statuses
| Player | 2011/2012 | 1sts Owed | 2nds Owed | 1sts Owned | 2nds Owned | ||
| Danny Granger | $12,015,904 | None | None | None | '15 GSW | ||
| David West | $10,000,000 | ||||||
| Jeff Foster | $3,000,000 | ||||||
| Louis Amundson | $2,763,450 | ||||||
| Dahntay Jones | $2,700,000 | Exceptions | |||||
| Roy Hibbert | $2,588,590 | None | |||||
| Paul George | $2,406,240 | ||||||
| Tyler Hansbrough | $2,138,040 | ||||||
| George Hill | $1,540,463 | ||||||
| Jeff Pendergraph | $1,500,000 | ||||||
| Darren Collison | $1,455,960 | ||||||
| A.J. Price | $854,389 | ||||||
| Lance Stephenson | $810,000 |
Before we start - the Kaman regulations from above? Throw all of them out for Indy, except the multiplayer one. The Pacers are significantly below the salary cap ($43M) and even if they absorbed the entirety of Kaman's contract in exchange for no salaries (i.e., just a draft pick), they'd still be under the cap.
Essentially, a Chris Kaman to Indiana deal will come entirely down to agreeing to who goes where. Unlike a Houston deal, there will be no "fulcrum" piece necessary to the completion of a deal (Thabeet's $5M+ salary).
Danny Granger and David West - both $10M+ players - are clearly off limits. From there, the next biggest contract is Jeff Foster at $3M. The Pacers are very interesting that way; the majority of their important contributors are on rookie deals, including Collison, Paul George, Roy Hibbert.
Because of their lack of exceptions, any conventional multiplayer deal (where the Hornets are sending out additional players with Kaman) with the Pacers will come after February 14th. But there's one additional deadline that could come into play here. By the terms of the new CBA, any free agent that signs with a team in 2011-2012 (this year only) cannot be traded before completing two months with his team or March 1st. This rule applies to both Jeff Foster and Jeff Pendergraph. If either of these players is in a potential deal, the Hornets will have two weeks to work a trade with the Pacers - March 1st to March 15th, the trade deadline. Obviously, terms can be agreed to beforehand, but nothing could become official.
There is, ostensibly, a method of performing multiplayer deals before February 14th, assuming the Hornets are after smaller contracts. New Orleans could conceivably deal Kaman to the Pacers for cash or a pick, bringing their total payroll into the $52M range. They could turn then turn around and execute a smaller trade that was initially agreed to. In a sense, Indiana's position below the cap can serve a similar function to a trade exception in terms of bypassing the February 14th deadline.
We can run down the list of Pacer contracts and see who would reasonably be included in a proposal:
Foster - ?
Amundson - yes (expiring)
Jones - yes
Hibbert - no
George - no
Hansbrough - no*
Hill - no*
Pendergraph - yes
Collison - no
Price - yes
Stephenson - yes
Most of the no's are pretty self explanatory. The two I'm less certain on are Hansbrough and Hill. I lean "no" on Hansbrough just because he's considered a "young" player, but keep this in mind - Chris Kaman is actually less than three years older than Hansbrough. I lean "no" on Hill as well since he's such an integral part of Indiana's current setup. Foster is a wild card. Healthy, he's one of the very, very best rebounders in the NBA. The problem is that he's not healthy. Foster hasn't played in a game since January 14th, when he underwent a back procedure.
So where does this leave us? Not much further (if at all) than Houston I'm afraid. A summary:
Plus Assets Indiana Might Give Up
1. 2012 1st Round Pick (projected in the ~20 range)
2. Tyler Hansbrough (stats)
3. George Hill (stats)
Random Pieces That Make Trades Work
- Not applicable to Indiana
Ultimately, it looks like Indiana has far fewer assets to get a Kaman deal done than Houston. It will come down to who's actually willing to give up what, of course. Perhaps Indy's possible ability to make a multiplayer trade before February 14th changes things, but I don't think it's too much of an advantage.
Post up your Trade Machine creations if you so wish, and we'll review some of them (along with the Houston ones from Saturday) before the San Antonio Spurs edition of this series.
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Trading with the Pacers
Ends up as a salary dump for the most part in my mind. Kaman for Hill and Indiana’s #1 (let’s say top 14 protected) is as good as it would get. Houston (of the three potential trade partners) provides the highest potential ceiling.
Definitely like what we can get from the rockets better
The Pacers are going to make the playoffs, there a top 5 team in the east IMO, houston might make it as 7-8 seed, i would love to get someone like George or Collison but thats a pipe dream
In related Pacers news...
Danny Granger has gone off since we considered the Gordon for Granger trade.
I hope I am wrong...
but I just don’t see any team giving up too much for a Kaman rental. I could see us acquiring some young players who never lived up to their expectations, and a second round pick sounds much more likely than a first. But, I hope I am wrong.
Indy has nobody to offer...
whom it would be willing to part with and whom I would want…. Next.
"I've seen George Foreman shadow box, and the shadow won." Muhammad Ali
Depending on Return
It may just be good enough to have the Hornets buy him out or let him walk. I know it doesn’t look pretty to the player but the Hornets really shouldn’t be taking back anything worthless when they’ve got Kaman’s salary coming off the books this offfseason. Monty recently said they were looking to trade Kaman for a back-up center who “can accept his role” (I guess insinuating that Kaman was uncomfortable in that role) but I’m not entirely interested in the Hornets picking up someone else to eat up payroll and not be a difference maker. And asking for cap relief in the deal makes no sense if Kaman is the only party involved as he’s already cap relief.
"You play to win the game."
On a marginally related note
I can’t believe that the Hornets at this time only have the third worst record in the league, behind Charlotte and Detroit (and we are tied with the Wizards). Unbelievable. We can’t even WIN FOR LOSING.
"I've seen George Foreman shadow box, and the shadow won." Muhammad Ali
Why did NO get Kaman in the first place?
The Pacers will not give up a first for Kaman. Dantay Jones might be the best they will offer.
For those fans who have followed the Hornets for a long time, what is it with their deliberate offense and lack of athleticism? Is this a deliberate attempt to fit the team to Chris Paul? The team would be more entertaining if they played uptempo and lost 110 to 95 instead of 90 to 80.
Basketball 101
If the other team is more talented than you are, you slow the pace down and limit the amount of possessions the other team can get. Playing a more deliberate pace allows for fewer mistakes and more attention to detail. Or at least it’s supposed to. Somehow the Hornets are still turnover machines. Anyways, I’m imagining that’s why the team plays at a slow pace. And I disagree that playing more up-tempo would make the losing more bearable. Nothing makes losing bearable.
"You play to win the game."
by MrWayneKeller on Jan 30, 2012 3:44 PM CST up reply actions
Slower pace also theoretically gives you a
higher chance of beating better teams if the disparity between your fast quality and slow quality isn’t too much. (And I don’t think it would be. As much as trying to speed things up sounds good in theory, you need multiple quality ball handlers and passers for it to be viable. Which we don’t have). Lower possessions = theoretically more of a chance for something weird to happen. Unfortunately, we just suck too much for the game theory aspect of this to really come into play at all.
your knowledge of the game astounds me
I’m glad to have you as the blog’s leader
by Ezio_Auditore on Jan 30, 2012 6:00 PM CST up reply actions
well
a lot of your articles are very insightful. i especially like the articles that are backed by statistics, like your +6 articles, which was very interesting. articles like that and your comments in general are very awesome. thanks rohan
by Ezio_Auditore on Jan 30, 2012 6:53 PM CST up reply actions
As For Why the Hornets Got Kaman
In the trade, Kaman’s got a big $14 million expiring contract. That’s pretty much the only reason.
"You play to win the game."
by MrWayneKeller on Jan 30, 2012 3:47 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Even though he won't be a playing Hornet, he's been so congenial
When he got here he had nothing but positive things to say about New Orleans and the Hornets front office.
Plus the Kaveman doesn’t take any grief from anybody. See Chris Kaman vs. Reggie Evans
“He grabbed my nuts.”
by Grand Tanyon Sturtze on Jan 30, 2012 10:03 PM CST up reply actions
Too bad they couldn't have gotten a 3rd team involved
20/20 hindsight what it is, it would have been nice to get Houston or someone like Houston involved in a 3 way deal with the Clippers and passed through Kaman right away rather than renting him for less than a month. His trade value was probably at its highest. I think Kaman would have been more productive with Gordon on the floor but that’s also 20/20 hindsight.
Gordon and Aminu are good in the open court, and I’d love to see the Hornets speed up the pace and get more athletic next season.
Hornets need to be realistic
As a rival team fan, I’m impressed with the Hornets atthehive site. The post I read from the fans regarding trading for Kaman are very realistic. The club seems to be somewhat unrealistic in what they’re demanding. Of course, it doesn’t hurt to ask for the moon but I don’t see any team giving up a 1st. or a top young prospect, yet alone both. The Pacers went through this last year with multiple high dollar expiring contracts and were only able to unload 1 which was Murphy to you guys for DC, and to do that they had to take on a bad contract in Posey who we amnestied this year. In Kamans case the fact that his contract is expiring lowers his trade value. Teams would love to have him is he were already signed to his next contract which will be less then this one, but the reality is that no team will want to give anything up of long term value since the odds of keeping Kaman for more then 30 games are very remote. Rohan does his homework and writes an insightful article, but I think he undervalues the NBA’s desire to save the cold hard cash on Kamans contract. In the end the Pacers will be the only team willing to absorb that contract cost while sending almost nothing back. Houston does seem to have the most to offer but it will be at the cost of a higher contract then the Pacers. I’d expect something like Hill and a 2cd. from the Pacers, or a bad contract and a 1st. from Houston. I think Stern will choose to save the money but it’ll go down to the wire as he tries to get the most that he can. Good luck guys, we Pacer fans have suffered through rebuilding for the past 6 years to get where we are now.
I disagree with this
Houston has expiring youngs to offer. Hill/flynn/Williams/Thabeet. they (we since im a rockets fan) also have 4 2nd rounders, and young talent. Houston is also looking to make cap space to make a run at dwight. Expect either Flynn+Hill+Thabeet+ 1 or 2 second rounders. or Dragic+Thabeet+Williams+2nd rounder. Dragic contract is up at the end of the year but he’s a restricted free agent, so NO can choose to sign him or not.
You may be right if Houston wants to give up their first and New Yorks but I personally wouldn’t want to give up a 1st. round pick to rent a player for 25 games. If the nba valued expiring contracts they’d just let Kaman expire. Expiring contracts still have to be paid this year while the league trys to find an owner for the team. The Pacers are the only team that saves the league Kamans full salary this season. That has real value to a potentional buyer, IMO as much as a 1st. round pick would. If you’re dealing with a team that has a deep pocket owner like Cuban then this logic wouldn’t apply at all, but dealing with a league owned team that’s losing money is a unique situation. The latest reports have the Pacers as the leader in the Kaman sweepstakes but only time will tell.

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