Today's the day I question Monty's viability for our future

by RedHopeful on Feb 8, 2012 11:35 PM CST

Now before I go on, let me state that I've been one of his staunchest supporters from day one. However, tonight, after viewing every second closely w/o distractions, I feel I have to change my tune.

We know what Monty brings to the table: his teams play good defense and they almost always give it their all. However, can anyone tell me what else? After 100+ games, I'm beginning to feel it's not enough and there should be something more. Now, I obviously realize that this is a poorly talented team, but after this many games, shouldn't there be some kind of progression? Individual improvement? Development? Offensive continuity?

Let's take for example, Trevor Ariza. When he came to our team, we knew we were getting a good defender/glue guy. We knew that if used properly he could also be an asset on the offensive end (his last year in a Laker uniform). Well, a little over 90 games, and his cumulative offensive rating is worse than what it was in a Rockets uniform.

How about Marco Belinelli? He had some flashes of excellent offense for both the Warriors/Raptors and us last season. So far this year, he's kicking it live with an 8.8 PER. That's even more god awful when you realize he's played 733 minutes so far this year. Next highest minutes for guys with PER's under 9.0 are in order: John Salmons (700), Kendrick Perkins (667), Shane Battier (566) and Chris Duhon (546).

Ok, so I'm picking on role players who shouldn't be counted on carrying a team offensively. Well, let's then focus our attention on a guy who was brought back to serve as one of our primary scorers. He was even given a pay raise of almost 3 times of his previous high 3 million per. Step on up Carl Landry. So far this season, he's actually considered an above average player sporting a 16.8 PER. However, he's seeing an eye-opening 23.9 minutes a game. That's the lowest since his first two years in the NBA. Moreover, he's easily sporting the worst FG% of his career at 46.7%.

Sense a pattern? Yeah I could keep going on and on, but us Hornet fans have suffered enough, haven't we? We all knew replacing CP3 was going to be mission impossible. Also, not having Eric Gordon has undoubtedly thrown a huge wrench into the plans as well. However, should everything be excused because we're missing our major player? If our guys are bringing it every night (and the eye-test says absolutely), then why are we so consistently inept on one end of the floor? Just as our semi-talentless squad can stay in front of their man, cover a pick and roll, box out, whatever, why can't we run good plays, set screens or keep passing the ball till we get a good shot the majority of times? Why can't this team define a few offensive strengths and attempt to achieve them on a nightly basis?

We can even go back to last year. I can't even remember how many times we wondered what was wrong with Chris Paul and why he was playing sooooooo much off the ball. Sure there were glimpses of old CP3, none more memorable than our two wins against the Lakers in last year's playoffs. Up to that point, I kept on telling myself that it was either/both CP3 wasn't 100% all too often and Monty was interested in having the rest of the team develop a partial offensive identity on their own. Looking back, now I'm not sure either was even a factor in our ugly 106.2 team offensive rating (good for 19th out of 30 teams).

Guys, Monty is simply awful when it comes to the offensive end of the floor. Whether it's specifically him or the guys next to him on the bench, someone isn't doing us any good. And the most disconcerting thing, is what do we have to look forward to? Where is the light at the end of the tunnel?

Why did a guy who was made inactive just over a few weeks ago end up taking 17 shots? Why did Ayon play only 18 minutes? Was he the only one who made mistakes at either end of the floor? Ok, maybe someone still wants to argue the whole adaption to the NBA. Then explain to me why recent signee Lance Thomas got over 12 minutes of burn? Because he fluently speaks the English language? Get outta here. When players step onto the court, they all know how to speak B*A*L*L. We've seen plenty from Ayon to suggest this kid knows how to play and how to play the right way.

This lack of development of Ayon has now made we worried about his future and the rest of our young guys like Henry and Vazquez. Why did the General, who played quite well for the most part during Jack's absence, suddenly only see 20 minutes tonight? Hey, didn't we get blown the F@#( out by the Bulls? Don't most coaches get their young guys in during games like this so they can garner valuable experience?

Yeah, I'm lost for answers too but I think it's time that we need to start asking hard questions about the guy in charge.

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Comments

I myself am a Monty supporter

but i’ve also been his strongest critic with regards to his offensive game plan. his offensive game plan is flawed, plain and simple. He wants his teams taking tons of 16-23 mid range jumpers. Those are the most inefficient shots in basketball, plus his shot distribution gameplan is flawed. He continually allows his most inefficient players to shoot the damn ball evidenced by Ariza and Green last year. I’ve always said that in order to achieve the elite “adds wins to his teams” coach tag, Monty has to improve on his offensive gameplan.

However, as I’ve said in my fan post, Monty’s greatest assets, as you said, is his ability to make his team play defense and play hard every night. The “play hard” is what is important to me. As long as he is commanding the respect of his players, I will continue to root for development on his side(on the offensive side). There are improvements mind you, but very small. I just wish he took that leap of faith and instead build our offense on 3 pt shooting and baseline and backdoor cuts. Those will generate a good number of easy and high efficiency shots (if the players allow it to be).

I disagree on your point regarding Beli, Ayon, Henry, Vasquez and Aminu.

Beli’s best season as a scorer came last year – when he posted a quite average 107 ORTG. besides that, he’s never been quite an effective scorer, as you put it. Flashes of brilliance are just that. Until the player can put it all together, they are just that, flashes.

Ayon won’t average more than 25 minutes per game this season, maybe clost to 20, book it. Why? Because too many factors are going against him. Language Barrier. Basketball Culture shock. Lack of training camp. The skills are there, but as i’ve consistently stated, players need to EARN their minutes. Ayon won’t see many minutes this year because of all those factors. Have you watched him play? He consistently plants himself in the paint (which is a no-no in the NBA). He also doesn’t understand that players in the NBA are quite athletic, more than his competition in Spain.
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Let’s not kid ourselves, this team is a bad offensive team. Besides Okafor and Landry, nobody, and I mean NOBODY, on this roster is a medium usage, high efficiency scorer. Jack is below average(he’s actually posting a 109 ORTG so he is outproducing himself). Same with Beli, same with Ariza, same with Henry, Vasquez, Aminu, Kaman. Ayon is an efficient scorer, but in a limited sample size.

So let’s not kid ourselves into thinking Monty can do ANYTHING about that ragtag group of misfits and average to below average scorers. What we have offensively is what I actually expected. What i didn’t expect was that the TO situation burying our defense down to below average. Easy fastbreak points are what makes our defense bad. But in a halfcourt situation, I’m reasonably confident that we’re top 10 (don’t have the numbers to back this up though. No access to Synergy Sports).

So where to look now? For me, I’m looking at every game as a time to continuously build our culture of playing passionately and playing with pride. And for the most part this season, we have. This game disappointed me, but i won’t let one game ruin around 15 games of hard fought losses to teams that are playoff contenders.

by nikkoewan on Feb 9, 2012 2:08 AM CST reply actions

Mind you

The offense production won’t change unless we bring in players that are actually good offensive scorers. Gordon will certainly help in that regard. Anthony Davis won’t. So don’t expect the draft to be a life savior for our offense.

The best example I like to think of when thinking about all this coaching conundrum is Doc Rivers. The year when Doc Rivers arrived in BOS, he made the playoffs. He had Payton, a prime Pierce and a prime Lafrentz plus productive young players in Jefferson and Allen. The year after, they didn’t make the playoffs although only Payton left. Why is that so? Because he was left with underproducing players, even though the system in place was the same, subbing out Payton with Delonte. The next year, injuries to Pierce made the Celtics one of the worst offensive teams that year. Then a year later, with the addition of HIGHLY efficient scorers Garnett and Allen to go along with the HIGHLY efficient scorer in Pierce, the Celtics had the 10th best offense in the league, coupled with the top defense in the league. And the story goes on, even with the same coach, the record largely depended on the players.

Monty’s ability to make his team believe they can win each game is a EXTREMELY RARE asset in a a coach. All the great coaches talked about the importance of motivation. And Monty has that. Coupled with his defensive system, and you have a good recipe.

Coaches are under the mercy of their roster. Those words have never rang more true this year. Hopefully, if we do replace Monty, we find a coach who can similarly make his team believe they can win each game. Give a solid coach a productive roster, and he’ll give you a productive product. Plain and Simple.

by nikkoewan on Feb 9, 2012 2:22 AM CST up reply actions

fuck so many typos

sorry about any typos

by nikkoewan on Feb 9, 2012 2:23 AM CST up reply actions

more or less agree

More or less agree with your analysis Nikko. I don’t think that Monty is a good offensive coach—his reply when asked about offenisve style was “our defense will make our offense”, whcih pretty much says it all. On the other hand, Monty doesn’t have much to work with as you well noted. I think we’ll need to see what he can do once Gordon returns.

The one thing I don’t agree with is where you state that Willie Green was together with Ariza, our least offensively efficient player last year. This is probably the result of the general bias against some players on this board and the fact that the more people post some fiction, the more likely other people are going to accept it as a fact.

The reality is that although Green was around average overall last year, his shooting %s were way higher than Ariza from pretty much everywhere on the court.

by MZURK on Feb 9, 2012 3:34 AM CST up reply actions

Bad players

We just have a bunch of bad players. Jarrett Jack is our leading scorer in the absence of Gordon and that pretty much says it all.

None of our young players have shown much promise yet, though Vasquez has had a few good games and Ayon has had his moments (though I think he has holes in his game whcih are slowly becoming obvious the more I have watched him). Aminu has some skills but he’s still a total project.

Our young players have been getting more time, but I disagree that they should be getting tons of minutes. Doing that can needlessly expose them and decrease their value as well as ruining their confidence if they aren’t ready for it (not to mention leading to more horrible blowouts). I go with the coach as far as minutes distribution is concerned though minute distribution could certainly be better.

Monty has shwon he can be a good defenisve coach, which counts for something. On offense, he’s been inept for the most part, but I think that it’s harder to coach/inspire good defense than good offense.

I totally understandf your frustration, but my take is that we just have to be patient a little more and wait until we get Gordon back before pronouncing judgment. Let’s see what Monty can do once we get our best player back.

by MZURK on Feb 9, 2012 3:41 AM CST reply actions 2 recs

Rec'd

because I think MZURK and I share the same position. The last 2 paragraphs of this reply catches it all for me.

“Monty has shown he can be a good defenisve coach, which counts for something. On offense, he’s been inept for the most part, but I think that it’s harder to coach/inspire good defense than good offense.

I totally understand your frustration, but my take is that we just have to be patient a little more and wait until we get Gordon back before pronouncing judgment. Let’s see what Monty can do once we get our best player back."

BTW, Willie Green did shoot a significantly higher percentage than Ariza, truth is Green did score 3 points per possession higher than Ariza. Problem is, Ariza is at 97, so Willie Green at 100 means his far from average. He’s around 7 points BELOW average. that’s a lot to ask. Still, loved Willy’s heart and professionalism so much. His silent leadership was something I appreciated so much.

by nikkoewan on Feb 9, 2012 3:59 AM CST up reply actions

Thanks Nikko

Though I don’t really know what it means that Ariza is 97 and Willie is 100.

I know that Willie was far more accurate than Ariza in terms of shooting so I don’t think he deserves to be lumped in with Ariza as an inefficient offenisve player, at least not inefficient like Ariza,

by MZURK on Feb 9, 2012 6:39 AM CST up reply actions

What does numbers mean is that

Ariza scores at a clip of 97 pts/100 possession. Green scores at a clip of 100 pts/100 possession. League average is around 107.5/100 possession. This means that for every possession Ariza uses, he scores around 0.97 pts. Green scores around 1 pt per possession. Although Green scores at a higher ORTG, doesn’t mean that he’s not inefficient. He doesn’t deserve to be lumped with Ariza because Ariza is on a whole level. That doesn’t mean Green wasn’t inefficient. It just means Ariza is the least efficient of them all.

by nikkoewan on Feb 9, 2012 2:38 PM CST up reply actions

Note

I never stated I want him to be replaced. Just want to see something different on the offensive side of the ball. Whether that’s from Monty or one of the assistants. Incorporate some new plays. Look at the tapes and see where our guys are most effective. After reading about Pondexter getting 17 and 6 last night, I really feel that almost any other coaching staff could get more out of our offensive unit. It’s a lost season so at least TRY to find something else that works better. That’s it.

by RedHopeful on Feb 9, 2012 11:09 AM CST reply actions

Also

I used to be 100% Monty – trusting in pretty much everything that he does. Can you all say that is still the case? Do you think he and his staff have done the best job possible on the offensive ball with plays, rotations and strategy?

by RedHopeful on Feb 9, 2012 11:11 AM CST up reply actions

Pondexter

That’s his first decent game in awhile. You can’t just point out anytime he does well. For the most part, it’s a talent issue but you did a good job laying out your points and I’ll respond more to it when I get some time later.

Seasoned by Zatarains

by MrWayneKeller on Feb 9, 2012 11:47 AM CST up reply actions

Never loved Monty's offensive system

but with this group of inefficient scorers, what did you expect?

Monty has incorporated some new plays. Some plays that were removed (or not used as often as before) are the baseline pick coupled with the high screen and roll because Jack isn’t the best post passer. We’ve also used sparingly the play i used to call “Wall in” where Beli receives the pass from the PG, then passes it back again, then runs to the baseline only to run in the middle of our two bigs, which gives him such a good double screen.

We run a few more high post action plays. Look i’m no coach, but i see subtle changes in the offense. As I said, I never liked his offensive gameplan but given the lack of offensive options, what did you expect?

I still trust Monty’s staff the same amount – I trust his ability to instill a great defensive gameplan, I trust his ability to make players respect him and work for him. I trust his development gameplan.

I can’t conclusively say that his offensive gameplan is solid, but it’s not giving him any favors. And I’m repeating that, I CAN’T conclusively say that his offensive game plan is solid. That doesn’t mean I’m going to 2nd guess his decisions.

His rotations are solid, his strategy is solid. Let this season play out please. We don’t want to make hasty judgements just because we’re losing.

by nikkoewan on Feb 9, 2012 3:11 PM CST up reply actions

A Look At This Roster

Especially when you take into account that the Hornets played last night without Jason Smith and Carl Landry, and this is the game that finally sent you over the edge, I’d have to say that this is largely a “I’m walking closer to the ledge” kind of situation. But the frustration makes plenty of sense.

Chris Paul is so amazing that he was able to put this bunch together and make a respectable offense last season. When you look at the pieces as a whole, you’ll see it’s not a very good bunch. Even including this year (which is career year’s for guys like Jack, Smith, Vasquez, etc.), you’ll see it’s not a very promising bunch.

For the sake of reality, I won’t include Eric Gordon in this list as he’s only played two games. This is the career average for PER and Offensive Rating for every player on the Hornets roster this season and last season.

Jarrett Jack – 14.2 PER (below league average), 108 Offensive Rating (barely above average)
Marco Belinelli – 11.4 PER, 104 Offensive Rating
Trevor Ariza – 13.5 PER, 103 Offensive Rating
Gustavo Ayon (and I’m being generous including this as it’s a very small sample size) – 21.0 PER, 113 Offensive Rating
Emeka Okafor – 17.2 PER, 107 Offensive Rating
Chris Kaman – 14.4 PER, 98 Offensive Rating (Unreal how bad he is offensively for someone with his skill set)
Greivis Vasquez – 12.0 PER, 99 Offensive Rating
Xavier Henry – 6.8 PER, 94 Offensive Rating
Al-Farouq Aminu – 9.4 PER, 92 Offensive Rating

Gordon and Landry would help immensely (and this year’s version of Jason Smith would be an average contributor)…. but this by and large an awful, awful, awful offensive squad and was thought to be so going into the season. That they’ve managed to be competitive in games this year is a testament to Monty’s coaching and, also, to Jack’s career year offensively. It’s just not a great squad. Even some of the guys the team let go from last season have ugly offensive numbers.

Willie Green – 11.3 PER, 99 Offensive Rating
Aaron Gray – 12.5 PER, 104 Offensive Rating
Quincy Pondexter – 8.8 PER, 101 Offensive Rating
David Andersen – 11.7 PER, 101 Offensive Rating
D.J. Mbenga – 10.8 PER, 97 Offensive Rating

Looking at these numbers makes it very frustrating that Monty couldn’t find a way to get Thornton on the court, but even still this is a very bad offensive bunch. Chris Paul’s greatness (and David West’s contributions shouldn’t be ignored either) made up for a lot of the team’s flaws. Sure Monty’s offensive structure and minute distribution leads a lot to be desired, but the coaching staff can only run so many plays for that team. It’s just not good offensively. There’s been career years by some and some “flashes” by some… but it’s an underachieving bunch. A good bit of parts here and there and some potential also, but it’s not just Monty that wasn’t able to get anything offensively out of this bunch. Okafor and Jack are the only ones who played last night who have ever consistently been around the league averages.

Monty deserves blame every now and then, but he’s not the reason this team sucks offensively.

Seasoned by Zatarains

by MrWayneKeller on Feb 9, 2012 8:33 PM CST reply actions